D&D 5E The Gloves Are Off?

[Maxperson]

And how is it that many are able to have enjoyable fantasy narratives within the context of the 5e rules?

Because it's not a dichotomy where the existence of those kinds of games somehow disproves the ones where narrative takes precedence over rules.

There are games where the rules take precedence and the narrative be damned. There are games where the narrative takes precedence and the rules be damned. And there are games where the narrative works within the rules and that narrative is different from the more extreme style. And everything in-between those things.

It's still all choices, not requirements.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Because it's not a dichotomy where the existence of those kinds of games somehow disproves the ones where narrative takes precedence over rules.

There are games where the rules take precedence and the narrative be damned. There are games where the narrative takes precedence and the rules be damned. And there are games where the narrative works within the rules and that narrative is different from the more extreme style. And everything in-between those things.

It's still all choices, not requirements.

And, since this is a thread about 5e specifically, where does 5e fall in that spectrum, in your opinion?

ETA: or am I misinterpreting what you mean by “games” here and you mean styles of play at various 5e tables?

 

[Maxperson]

And, since this is a thread about 5e specifically, where does 5e fall in that spectrum, in your opinion?

You can do all of that with 5e. Though the hardest to do would be rules over narrative, since the rules are deliberately written vaguely and with holes requiring rulings, and the fact that it encourages rulings over rules. DMs usually rule with what makes the most sense, which often also fits the narrative, so those gaps and vague rules rulings would lean towards the narrative.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

You can do all of that with 5e. Though the hardest to do would be rules over narrative, since the rules are deliberately written vaguely and with holes requiring rulings, and the fact that it encourages rulings over rules. DMs usually rule with what makes the most sense, which often also fits the narrative, so those gaps and vague rules rulings would lean towards the narrative.

If the rules are vague, how can they truly conflict with one’s ability to create narrative?

 

[Micah Sweet]

But do not rules define a game?
And how is it that many are able to have enjoyable fantasy narratives within the context of the 5e rules?

In any case, it is nice to know that you have found that you are able to achieve the goals of play through A5e (I do have that right, yes?)

You do have that right. Level Up isn't perfect, but it is miles ahead of WotC's 5e for me.

The answer to your first question is simply that not everyone agrees with me. Go figure.

 

[Micah Sweet]

If the rules are vague, how can they truly conflict with one’s ability to create narrative?

Well, the rules aren't vague  everywhere.

 

[Maxperson]

If the rules are vague, how can they truly conflict with one’s ability to create narrative?

Because the rules aren't, "If a fireball is cast, something happens somewhere." They aren't so vague that conflicts can't or won't happen. And you also overlook where I said "have holes in them." which are rules that aren't vague, but don't cover everything.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

the rules are deliberately written vaguely

If the rules are vague, how can they truly conflict with one’s ability to create narrative?

Because the rules aren't

Wut

(ETA: I see your clarification - just struck me funny upon first read)

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Because the rules aren't, "If a fireball is cast, something happens somewhere." They aren't so vague that conflicts can't or won't happen. And you also overlook where I said "have holes in them." which are rules that aren't vague, but don't cover everything.

Ah, so we are now saying the gloves "have holes in them". No advantage for you! Roll that Con save!

 

[Maxperson]

Ah, so we are now saying the gloves "have holes in them". No advantage for you! Roll that Con save!

I wasn't talking about the gloves at all, but rather making a blanket statement about how 5e as a whole is designed to work.