D&D 5E Something to consider about Grognards and the OGL...

[Ralif Redhammer]

If you're a grognard, D&D died when they put Advanced in front of it....people have been saying the latest iteration of D&D isn't true D&D since there was a second iteration of it, if not before.

Dude, it if you're a grognard it hasn't been D&D since 2000 when it was purchased by a mega corp.
What was D&D died with 3rd edition. Then that died again with 4e.
5e is a simulacrum of the old way. Twenty years ago, someone spent millions of dollars to use the trademarked brand name, but all of us who were there know that it hasn't been the same D&D for decades.
All this is fine. It's just not the same.

When I've got drawers filled with D&D-themed t-shirts, can listen to D&D-themed music, make D&D-themed cocktails and foods, read books about D&D, the distinction between it and other sub-cultures is very thin, if at all existent. My battlevest has a Green Devil Face patch not far below a Dio patch.

The term you were looking for is sub-culture.

At WotC the term that has previously been used to describe hardcore gamers is "lifestyle players"

 

[overgeeked]

If you're a grognard, D&D died when they put Advanced in front of it....people have been saying the latest iteration of D&D isn't true D&D since there was a second iteration of it, if not before.

True. I've actually heard people say, "Anything not in the original LBB is not real D&D."

When I've got drawers filled with D&D-themed t-shirts, can listen to D&D-themed music, make D&D-themed cocktails and foods, read books about D&D, the distinction between it and other sub-cultures is very thin, if at all existent. My battlevest has a Green Devil Face patch not far below a Dio patch.

The best kind of vest.

 

[Voadam]

If you're a grognard, D&D died when they put Advanced in front of it....people have been saying the latest iteration of D&D isn't true D&D since there was a second iteration of it, if not before.

Thieves in Greyhawk ruined D&D. Percentile strength was pretty terrible as well.

 

[JAMUMU]

Like many of you, I also started playing D&D in the early 1800s. I remember raiding a stately home to steal the first table we played around, smuggling barrels of dice into shady coves to avoid paying the King's Tax and kidnapping a literate clerk to read out the rules for us. I remember when the players had roles, like mapper, caller, and the guy who was the lookout in case Redcoats appeared. I remember D&D when if your character failed a saving throw against disease, the player had to contract that disease too. Many of us didn't make it out, and those who did had terrible skin.

And then the game changed, and changed again, and changed again, but it was always the game. It was the life. It was always D&D.

What WotC might be proposing is to turn D&D into something that is no longer the game; something that's no longer D&D. Not to the scurvy grogs and dogs that sit around our table, anyway.

 

[cbwjm]

If you're a grognard, D&D died when they put Advanced in front of it....people have been saying the latest iteration of D&D isn't true D&D since there was a second iteration of it, if not before.

I've read some of the Dragon forum letters from back when 2e was announced, a lot of people complaining about the new edition, though some were in support. I wonder how many more complaint letters they had that they didn't publish.

 

[TolkienThePiss]

D&D died when they stopped including Parasitic Infestation tables in the DMG!

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Not going to deny that percentile strength, as much as it takes me back, was a bad idea.

Thieves in Greyhawk ruined D&D. Percentile strength was pretty terrible as well.

I can't imagine the complaint letters Dragon magazine got over the years. During the Satanic Panic depths, that would've been something else.

I've read some of the Dragon forum letters from back when 2e was announced, a lot of people complaining about the new edition, though some were in support. I wonder how many more complaint letters they had that they didn't publish.

 

[GuyBoy]

Played D&D since 1976 and still playing it now.
It matters little to me whether I’m playing the TSR editions ( though never NuTSR!), WOTC, Pathfinder, Kobold Press, Level Up: in all cases, I’m playing D&D. Always will be.
I’m invested in the spirit of the game, in its history and in all the memories it has given me.
The debacle of WOTC’s actions recently have been painful to watch but they will never kill D&D.

 

[MichaelSomething]

They should have kept the Gygaxian balance they already had! Spell components, d4 hit dice, more round long casting times, different exp requirements, dangerous spell drawbacks, and no at will cantrips! Now that's D&D!

I think the aspect of 4E which informed its design (that was not present in those other games) was the utter dominance of World of Warcraft at the time.

That, in turn, had an element of play balance between classes that D&D had never had before. There, the point was to balance the party vs the monsters, not members of the party vs each other -- as was one of the balancing factors inherent in PvP play in WoW class design. Diablo influence? Same thing.

I would not pooh-pooh that aspect of things too much. It always in vogue and garners much grognard street cred to dismiss 4e as "video-gamey" with a sneer.

Yeah, well, we might get some of this back in future editions, too. The game is bigger than any of us (it's bigger than WotC, too). And these things can have a rhythm.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

I love that after about the first dozen comments of support for this guy opening up about how HE feels about D&D, the thread rapidly slid down towards edition wars and 'it hasn't been D&D since it was bought and turned into yaddayaddayadda'.

That's the gaming community online these days, I guess.