D&D Beyond Cancellations Changed WotCs Plans

Gizmodo has revealed that the partial OGL v1.1 walkback yesterday was in response to the fan campaign to cancel D&D Beyond subscriptions, with "five digits" worth of cancellations. However, the site also reveals that management at the company believed that fans were overreating and that it would all be forgotten in a few months.

In order to delete a D&D Beyond account entirely, users are funneled into a support system that asks them to submit tickets to be handled by customer service: Sources from inside Wizards of the Coast confirm that earlier this week there were “five digits” worth of complaining tickets in the system. Both moderation and internal management of the issues have been “a mess,” they said, partially due to the fact that WotC has recently downsized the D&D Beyond support team.

Yesterday's walkback removed the royalties from the license, but still 'de-authorized' the OGL v1.0a, something which may or may not be legally possible, depending on who you ask.

Cancelled D&D Beyond Subscriptions Forced Hasbro's Hand

Swift consumer action prompted Dungeons & Dragons publisher Wizards of the Coast to to scrap licensing updates. The players aren't done yet.

gizmodo.com

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I agree it's possible we'll see 5E PDFs once 1D&D is out, but it's also just likely (if not more so) that we'll never see another PDF release again, and they'll just expect you to pick up a top-tier DDB subscription if you want out of print 5E material. Note that content that once would have been a PDF on Wizards' site or on DM Guild, like the Dragonlance monster compendium, is now fully online DDB content...

This too, in time, will pass.

That's what I'd say to that. I don't expect to see 5E PDFs "once 1D&D is out", I expect to see them either when D&D Beyond is getting shut down, or WotC or the D&D IP has been sold to a new owner, or when 7E is coming out, or whatever.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

What is there to debate?

You still haven't answered the umbrella point, which negates your entire argument and is not insulting. It's a few posts up.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

You still haven't answered the umbrella point, which negates your entire argument and is not insulting. It's a few posts up.

Is it something to do with my argument or is it something I never claimed you want me to defend AS IF I claimed it.

My point is the world is a better place the less hate speech there is, and if the OGL spelled out that it didn't protect you from C&D and Lawsuits from WotC if you use it, that is BETTER.

The same way we talk about 'safe harbors' for 3pp, I don't like Racists and others like them finding a safe harbor anywhere.

 

[ValamirCleaver]

The same way we talk about 'safe harbors' for 3pp, I don't like Racists and others like them finding a safe harbor anywhere.

Finally honesty! To me it sounds like GMforPowergamers wants those they consider racists to be deplatformed & silenced in the TTRPG space no matter what the cost. If Wizbro de-authorizes OGL 1.0a in the name of effecting this & therefore everyone else is inconvenienced & suffers as a result, too bad! Working 22½ year old, open licenses sacrificed in the name of supposedly combating racism are an acceptable loss. Obviously there is no chance in the future that Wizbro would use the potential further consolidation of the TTRPG market that the de-authorization OGL 1.0a affords them to engage in any practices that GMforPowergamers might find racist. Nope, Wizbro never published Strahd or Spelljammer material that had even the least bit of racism, no siree Bob!

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Is it something to do with my argument or is it something I never claimed you want me to defend AS IF I claimed it.

My point is the world is a better place the less hate speech there is, and if the OGL spelled out that it didn't protect you from C&D and Lawsuits from WotC if you use it, that is BETTER.

The same way we talk about 'safe harbors' for 3pp, I don't like Racists and others like them finding a safe harbor anywhere.

OK, at this point it's obvious you literally don't understand the issue on even a basic level. You're acting like it's a magic spell that kills skinheads. So I'm giving up, because you can't argue with magical thinking.

EDIT - Also as @ValamirCleaver says, like, you seem to espousing a position which is "It doesn't matter how much harm something does, so long as it also stops racists". Which is incredibly silly absolutism. Like, what, should we shut down a public park because a racist might enjoy the park, or might say a racist thing whilst in the park lol?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Finally honesty! To me it sounds like GMforPowergamers wants those they consider racists to deplatformed & silenced in the TTRPG space no matter what the cost.

I don't know if I would say 'no matter what the cost' but yeah... that is pretty good in my mind.

If Wizbro de-authorizes OGL 1.0a in the name of effecting this & therefore everyone else is inconvenienced & suffers as a result, too bad!

nope... I have many many times said IF THEY CAN change it... aka we can't stop them, piazo can't stop them... This isn't in any way an endorsement of them putting people out of business (unless they are useing said hate speech)

THis seems to be the part you are not understanding... You and I can't make a legal ruling. We can't say they can or can't. What we CAN say is if they are going to change it what changes we do and don't want...

Working 22½ year old, open licenses sacrificed in the name of supposedly combating racism are an acceptable loss.

nope that's you making up some argument I didn't make... this is you inserting a boogy man that nobody here has called upon.

Now if you want to talk the pros and cons of the OGL, and if it SHOULD be revoked that is a very different conversation... this one is IF THEY CAN...

DO you understand that I am looking at the changes, and saying IF THIS HAPPENS, THIS IS GOOD and THIS IS BAD.

Obviously there no chance in the future that Wizbro would use the potential further consolidation of the TTRPG market that the de-authorization OGL 1.0a affords them to engage in any practices that GMforPowergamers might find racist.

Nope, Wizbro never published Strahd or Spelljammer material that had even the least bit of racism, no siree Bob!

hey look at that... I didn't catch the Hadozi until it was pointed out... once it was I was a voice on here and Tic Tok about it (once you see it you can't unsee it)
THe curse of strahd stuff some of it was REALLY bad. Some of it was a little bad, and I was happy they redid it, my only argument was what that they seemed to be more interested in a 'directors' cut.
As far as the Vistani go, they still need some reworking (I think the 4e they take in people from all heritages, so there are halfling vistani and dragonborn vistani would be a start).

So again, I never claimed WotC was great or perfect, I just know that given pressure (like most big companies) they will bend toward the way we want... as long as we keep up the pressure.

It's like an old Sci Fi show (I can't remember the show it wasn't star trek) the first officer was a selfish jerk and in general evil... so the captain explained he didn't need to trust him except to do what was in his own best interest.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

OK, at this point it's obvious you literally don't understand the issue on even a basic level. You're acting like it's a magic spell that kills skinheads. So I'm giving up, because you can't argue with magical thinking.

EDIT - Also as @ValamirCleaver says, like, you seem to espousing a position which is "It doesn't matter how much harm something does, so long as it also stops racists". Which is incredibly silly.

I never said it kills anyone... I do think it would be an extra obstacle... something that doesn't make the action impossible, but a bit harder. I don't think I can or anyone can just magically stomp out skinheads, but we can make it harder for them to have a platform.

as for the 'any cost' there is no cost that I see. The closest to a cost is MAYBE someone is going to try to claim any non WotC product counts as hate speech... I doubt that would happen (although not impossible) but if it did I would speak out and I assume so would you.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I do think it would be an extra obstacle...

Explain how.

You already have to get past Drivethru, DM's Guild, or Kickstarter. They actually look at what you're doing before it goes up. That's the real obstacle.

What WotC is saying is, after it's gone up, we might have a look, if people shout at us enough. But that's pointless because the job's already been done. It's you saying you'll do the washing up after I've already done it.

And note that it's not just good people who can shout at them - bad people can too. You think this is just racism? It'll be LGBTQ+ stuff as well. Stuff where the bad people often convince corporations to do something nasty, to "avoid sexualization".

as for the 'any cost' there is no cost that I see. The closest to a cost is MAYBE someone is going to try to claim any non WotC product counts as hate speech... I doubt that would happen (although not impossible) but if it did I would speak out and I assume so would you.

...

Are you joking?

The cost the total destruction of the OGL 1.0a, huge financial problems for hundreds of companies, people losing their jobs, losing their livelihoods, losing the opportunity to do what they enjoy because the OGL 1.0a is being killed off.

That's "no cost" to you? Jesus wept.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Mod Note:

We are NOT rehashing the discussion on how to handle bigoted/problematic material from older ROG products in the already-fraught topic of the OGL situation. It’s tangential at best and inflammatory at worst. It’s already contributing to less-than-stellar rhetoric & behavior in several posts.

Drop it.

 

[overgeeked]

Never mind.