WotC The other snake in the grass: the Wizards Fan Content Policy

Parmandur

Book-Friend
hat sounds like someone thinks the FCP has weight and is willing to spend legal fees to test it.
Just to be clear, the fan policy doesn't involve WotC trying to grab at rights or authority: they have rights over their intellectual property, their fans content policy just let's us know what rights they aren't going to exercise aggressively. If they got rid of it, they would be in their rights to go all TSR on fan sites.
 

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Dausuul

Legend
My main objection to WotC's fan policy is that it is groaning under the weight of all the "How do you do, fellow kids?"

As for the details of the policy... as everyone else has pointed out, it's a policy, not a contract. And even aside from that, it would take a lot for me to get mad about the terms under which Wizards chooses to make their IP available. I was up in arms about the OGL because Wizards was trying to take back IP that they had already put out there, breaking twenty years of promises to do so, which would have devastated a community built on that commitment.

The fan policy isn't the same thing at all.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
You were part of an army that defeated the dragon. Not only defeated it, but actually came out ahead. It was an awesome victory and a welcome relief.

A lot of people in that situation are going to look for the next dragon to slay in order to relive that sense of hard fought victory.

But the FCP is not a dragon. It's a policy and guideline that let's people know ahead of time what WOTC thinks. It clarifies, it doesn't suppress.

Sometimes it's hard to accept that there are no more dragons to slay, that doesn't mean we should be tilting at windmills.

And the Community wept when they heard Anaxarchus discourse about an infinite number of policies that WoTC had, and when others inquired what ailed them, "Is it not worthy of tears," the Community said, "that, when the number of policies is infinite, the Community has not yet fought against them all?"
-Plutarch, confusingly.
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
Just to be clear, the fan policy doesn't involve WotC trying to grab at rights or authority: they have rights over their intellectual property, their fans content policy just let's us know what rights they aren't going to exercise aggressively. If they got rid of it, they would be in their rights to go all TSR on fan sites.
In fact if they were to rescind the fan policy completely then I would assume that was exactly what they were going to do. They wouldn't rescind it otherwise - even if there's a fan site out there that is doing something they don't like but is technically allowed by the fan policy they can always just revise it to include whatever behavior they don't like that that site is doing and go after that site.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
In fact if they were to rescind the fan policy completely then I would assume that was exactly what they were going to do. They wouldn't rescind it otherwise - even if there's a fan site out there that is doing something they don't like but is technically allowed by the fan policy they can always just revise it to include whatever behavior they don't like that that site is doing and go after that site.
And they could do either legally! There's not a fight to be had, here: WotC has a stated policy of being fairly hands-off with fans using their intellectual property, but they don't have to, and they certainly don't have to give more.
 


Caerdwyn

Villager
Do we have rights to use WotC's intellectual property? Factually, if you bought your D&D books, or are using the SRD 5.1 under its Creative Commons status, YES. Not unlimited, i.e. falsely implying endorsement, or some trademark uses, or to deceive, but otherwise very, very broadly.
  • Can we use WotC's intellectual property for criticism, commentary, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research, including trademarks? Absolutely yes. Fair Use Doctrine.
  • Can we do things like livestream D&D games? Factually yes, and WotC doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. First Sale Doctrine.
  • Can we advertise, without permission, compatibility with WotC's products? Yes, modulo some trademark restrictions (see section D).
Of course WotC doesn't want someone publishing a d20 system for "Rednecks and Racists", for instance. But unless there is specific defamation or infringement that falls outside of the above, they have no recourse. Certainly not on copyright (so no DMCA takedowns), and defamation requires an actual judgement and court order. Sites like YouTube, Twitch and ENWorld have their own terms of service that would forbid display or promotion of such a thing, but those are due to the private nature of the sites in question and the rights the site owners have with regard to content. I don't want to see "R&R" exist either, but WotC falsely claiming that it has all of the rights listed in the FCP doesn't actually empower them to order takedowns anywhere other than their own property, i.e. DnDBeyond and DMSGuild. That power is reserved for judges and juries, and only after determining why the media in question isn't protected by any of the above. And that's a mighty high bar to clear.

Seriously, I don't understand the pushback against warning that there might be other documents WotC could try to leverage, especially when those documents contain at least some assertions of rights and powers they factually do not have. The FCP is a weaker document than the OGL (especially the proposed OGLs), but it does indicate a mindset of "we can take stuff down". I quote from the policy:

We have the right to stop or restrict your use of Wizards’ IP at any time—for any reason or no reason—including when we think your use is inappropriate, offensive, damaging, or disparaging (and we’ll make that call in our sole discretion). If this happens, you must immediately take down your Fan Content

No. They do not have that right, and they will not be the judge of that. The above quote is just plain a lie. If I want to have a sponsor to my Dungeons and Dragons videos be Bad Dragon and they were down for that (wibble wobble), I have the right to do exactly that as long as I don't claim specifically that WotC is okay with that sponsorship. They don't get a vote. Similarly, I can have Paizo as a sponsor to videos discussing featuring and discussing WotC products if I so desire. Takedown attempts there would run squarely into anti-competitive practices, and that's the kind of behavior that incites those mind-boggling (but justified) fines we're hearing about Google and similar being hit with.

Another quote:

Can I use all of Wizards’ IP?


Unfortunately, no. You cannot incorporate Wizards patents, game mechanics (unless your Fan Content is created under the D&D Open Game License), logos, or trademarks into your Fan Content without our prior written permission.

First, the above is simply untrue based upon the principles early in this post. Second, there never has been an obligation to release something under OGL. Third, that doesn't matter any more with regard to anything in SRD 5.1 because CC-BY-SA-4.0 (so they probably should update that). Game mechanics are not patentable. Long since settled. And I can absolutely use their logos and trademarks under the Fair Use Doctrine (see above); I just cannot use them in a way that implies I'm WotC or the trademark owner myself, i.e. confuse a reasonable customer/viewer that there is specific endorsement or ownership by WotC.

In fact, about the only thing I couldn't do with a stream is to either sit down and page through every page on-camera or go 100% audiobook-reading of WotC's book content that isn't covered by SRD 5.1 (copyright infringement) or blather on in a way falsely claiming trademark ownership (deceptive trade practices/trademark infringement). Patents (the third pillar of intellectual property) are not applicable, as game mechanics are not patentable, and even if they were the grace period within the public disclosure doctrine has long, long since passed (by years to decades) and would have expired even if such a patent had been granted.

Everything else is on the table.

There's a lot of misunderstanding of what rights these companies do and do not have, and they depend upon that misunderstanding. They depend upon confusion about intellectual property law (you'll note that I support my assertions with primary sources). They depend upon intimidation and "win or lose, it'll cost ya" (for which we have anti-SLAPP laws, specific provisions of the DMCA and other protections such as those within my state, California).

I've done my homework. If I'm wrong, show me factual sources exceeding in authority and depth of analysis than those linked to here.

All I am trying to do here is to dispel that misunderstanding with supportable fact, and warn people that given WotC/Hasbro's recent bad faith efforts, they might try to leverage that misunderstanding. They are untrustworthy, in full CYA-mode, and it needs to be made clear that this other potential legal trickery will be neither tolerated, hidden, nor successful. Is that so very bad?
 
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It's always possible WotC might choose to shoot themselves in the other foot. Anyone who has worked for an organisation of any size will tell you never to underestimate senior management's capacity to make stupid decisions. But the list of stupid things they might do is infinite. Most of us realise it's best to keep our powder (and our credibility) dry for when something actually does happen.
 

bedir than

Full Moon Storyteller
Do we have rights to use WotC's intellectual property? Factually, if you bought your D&D books, or are using the SRD 5.1 under its Creative Commons status, YES. Not unlimited, i.e. falsely implying endorsement, or some trademark uses, or to deceive, but otherwise very, very broadly.
  • Can we use WotC's intellectual property for criticism, commentary, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research, including trademarks? Absolutely yes. Fair Use Doctrine.
  • Can we do things like livestream D&D games? Factually yes, and WotC doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. First Sale Doctrine.
  • Can we advertise, without permission, compatibility with WotC's products? Yes, modulo some trademark restrictions (see section D).
Of course WotC doesn't want someone publishing a d20 system for "Rednecks and Racists", for instance. But unless there is specific defamation or infringement that falls outside of the above, they have no recourse. Certainly not on copyright (so no DMCA takedowns), and defamation requires an actual judgement and court order. Sites like YouTube, Twitch and ENWorld have their own terms of service that would forbid display or promotion of such a thing, but those are due to the private nature of the sites in question and the rights the site owners have with regard to content. I don't want to see "R&R" exist either, but WotC falsely claiming that it has all of the rights listed in the FCP doesn't actually empower them to order takedowns anywhere other than their own property, i.e. DnDBeyond and DMSGuild. That power is reserved for judges and juries, and only after determining why the media in question isn't protected by any of the above. And that's a mighty high bar to clear.

Seriously, I don't understand the pushback against warning that there might be other documents WotC could try to leverage, especially when those documents contain at least some assertions of rights and powers they factually do not have. The FCP is a weaker document than the OGL (especially the proposed OGLs), but it does indicate a mindset of "we can take stuff down". I quote from the policy:



No. They do not have that right, and they will not be the judge of that. The above quote is just plain a lie. If I want to have a sponsor to my Dungeons and Dragons videos be Bad Dragon and they were down for that (wibble wobble), I have the right to do exactly that as long as I don't claim specifically that WotC is okay with that sponsorship. They don't get a vote. Similarly, I can have Paizo as a sponsor to videos discussing featuring and discussing WotC products if I so desire. Takedown attempts there would run squarely into anti-competitive practices, and that's the kind of behavior that incites those mind-boggling (but justified) fines we're hearing about Google and similar being hit with.

Another quote:



First, the above is simply untrue based upon the principles early in this post. Second, there never has been an obligation to release something under OGL. Third, that doesn't matter any more with regard to anything in SRD 5.1 because CC-BY-SA-4.0 (so they probably should update that). Game mechanics are not patentable. Long since settled. And I can absolutely use their logos and trademarks under the Fair Use Doctrine (see above); I just cannot use them in a way that implies I'm WotC or the trademark owner myself, i.e. confuse a reasonable customer/viewer that there is specific endorsement or ownership by WotC.

In fact, about the only thing I couldn't do with a stream is to either sit down and page through every page on-camera or go 100% audiobook-reading of WotC's book content that isn't covered by SRD 5.1 (copyright infringement) or blather on in a way falsely claiming trademark ownership (deceptive trade practices/trademark infringement). Patents (the third pillar of intellectual property) are not applicable, as game mechanics are not patentable, and even if they were the grace period within the public disclosure doctrine has long, long since passed (by years to decades) and would have expired even if such a patent had been granted.

Everything else is on the table.

There's a lot of misunderstanding of what rights these companies do and do not have, and they depend upon that misunderstanding. They depend upon confusion about intellectual property law (you'll note that I support my assertions with primary sources). They depend upon intimidation and "win or lose, it'll cost ya" (for which we have anti-SLAPP laws, specific provisions of the DMCA and other protections such as those within my state, California).

I've done my homework. If I'm wrong, show me factual sources exceeding in authority and depth of analysis than those linked to here.

All I am trying to do here is to dispel that misunderstanding with supportable fact, and warn people that given WotC/Hasbro's recent bad faith efforts, they might try to leverage that misunderstanding. They are untrustworthy, in full CYA-mode, and it needs to be made clear that this other potential legal trickery will be neither tolerated, hidden, nor successful. Is that so very bad?
All of your claims are unsupported by case law, which essentially means that you are gambling with other people's money.

It's the best type of gambling, but the worst type of advice.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Do we have rights to use WotC's intellectual property? Factually, if you bought your D&D books, or are using the SRD 5.1 under its Creative Commons status, YES. Not unlimited, i.e. falsely implying endorsement, or some trademark uses, or to deceive, but otherwise very, very broadly.
  • Can we use WotC's intellectual property for criticism, commentary, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research, including trademarks? Absolutely yes. Fair Use Doctrine.
  • Can we do things like livestream D&D games? Factually yes, and WotC doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. First Sale Doctrine.
  • Can we advertise, without permission, compatibility with WotC's products? Yes, modulo some trademark restrictions (see section D).
Of course WotC doesn't want someone publishing a d20 system for "Rednecks and Racists", for instance. But unless there is specific defamation or infringement that falls outside of the above, they have no recourse. Certainly not on copyright (so no DMCA takedowns), and defamation requires an actual judgement and court order. Sites like YouTube, Twitch and ENWorld have their own terms of service that would forbid display or promotion of such a thing, but those are due to the private nature of the sites in question and the rights the site owners have with regard to content. I don't want to see "R&R" exist either, but WotC falsely claiming that it has all of the rights listed in the FCP doesn't actually empower them to order takedowns anywhere other than their own property, i.e. DnDBeyond and DMSGuild. That power is reserved for judges and juries, and only after determining why the media in question isn't protected by any of the above. And that's a mighty high bar to clear.

Seriously, I don't understand the pushback against warning that there might be other documents WotC could try to leverage, especially when those documents contain at least some assertions of rights and powers they factually do not have. The FCP is a weaker document than the OGL (especially the proposed OGLs), but it does indicate a mindset of "we can take stuff down". I quote from the policy:



No. They do not have that right, and they will not be the judge of that. The above quote is just plain a lie. If I want to have a sponsor to my Dungeons and Dragons videos be Bad Dragon and they were down for that (wibble wobble), I have the right to do exactly that as long as I don't claim specifically that WotC is okay with that sponsorship. They don't get a vote. Similarly, I can have Paizo as a sponsor to videos discussing featuring and discussing WotC products if I so desire. Takedown attempts there would run squarely into anti-competitive practices, and that's the kind of behavior that incites those mind-boggling (but justified) fines we're hearing about Google and similar being hit with.

Another quote:



First, the above is simply untrue based upon the principles early in this post. Second, there never has been an obligation to release something under OGL. Third, that doesn't matter any more with regard to anything in SRD 5.1 because CC-BY-SA-4.0 (so they probably should update that). Game mechanics are not patentable. Long since settled. And I can absolutely use their logos and trademarks under the Fair Use Doctrine (see above); I just cannot use them in a way that implies I'm WotC or the trademark owner myself, i.e. confuse a reasonable customer/viewer that there is specific endorsement or ownership by WotC.

In fact, about the only thing I couldn't do with a stream is to either sit down and page through every page on-camera or go 100% audiobook-reading of WotC's book content that isn't covered by SRD 5.1 (copyright infringement) or blather on in a way falsely claiming trademark ownership (deceptive trade practices/trademark infringement). Patents (the third pillar of intellectual property) are not applicable, as game mechanics are not patentable, and even if they were the grace period within the public disclosure doctrine has long, long since passed (by years to decades) and would have expired even if such a patent had been granted.

Everything else is on the table.

There's a lot of misunderstanding of what rights these companies do and do not have, and they depend upon that misunderstanding. They depend upon confusion about intellectual property law (you'll note that I support my assertions with primary sources). They depend upon intimidation and "win or lose, it'll cost ya" (for which we have anti-SLAPP laws, specific provisions of the DMCA and other protections such as those within my state, California).

I've done my homework. If I'm wrong, show me factual sources exceeding in authority and depth of analysis than those linked to here.

All I am trying to do here is to dispel that misunderstanding with supportable fact, and warn people that given WotC/Hasbro's recent bad faith efforts, they might try to leverage that misunderstanding. They are untrustworthy, in full CYA-mode, and it needs to be made clear that this other potential legal trickery will be neither tolerated, hidden, nor successful. Is that so very bad?
It's a fan content policy, not "Introduction to U.S. Copyright Law." It's laying out the rules you need to follow in order to have your stuff considered "fan content" by WotC. That's the context for everything there.

It is not, and does not claim to be, an enumeration of your legal rights.

If you want to educate people on their legal rights with regard to Wizards IP... well, I kinda wish you'd get an actual IP lawyer to vet your pronouncements first, but that's up to you. But you're not making a compelling case for the rest of us to tilt at the fan content policy windmill.
 
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