It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[Umbran]

It's also not the way humans work to actively reward someone who harmed you or people you care about, gave a forced apology, and then walked back a portion(albeit a significant portion) of what they did.

Yes, but we already knew that humans are often kind of dysfunctional, right?

If I want the world to change, it is contingent on me to do the right thing to help make it happen. That may mean I need to engage my forebrain, rather than indulge my more base behaviors, even if some other party in the issue does not.

 

[Parmandur]

And that's fine. I'm in the middle of you and those who are still frustrated and angry. I'm willing to buy product and spend money seeing the movie, but I don't trust them and haven't forgiven them. I'm going to reserve any sort of final forgiveness at least until I see how 5.5 shakes out.

I actually don't think you and I are too far apart here: main difference is that I never expected better of WotC, or any other corporation.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, but we already knew that humans are often kind of dysfunctional, right?

Kind of?

If I want the world to change, it is contingent on me to do the right thing to help make it happen. That may mean I need to engage my forebrain, rather than indulge my more base behaviors.

As you mention, humans are dysfunctional and that includes those in charge of corporations. What I see happen when parents reward kids for bad behaviors that are only partially fixed, is that the kids just continue to engage in those behaviors or even step them up in order to get the reward. I see similar behaviors in adult humans.

At some point we have to weigh whether we want to encourage corporate bad behavior with a reward when they only partially fix something, or whether we withhold that reward until fully fixed to encourage THAT behavior. That's a personal decision. Some here are rewarding the former, and some are waiting for the latter before giving the reward.

 

[eyeheartawk]

I go sort of against the grain on this one.

I only indulge my more base behaviors.

 

[ersatzphil]

You should try good Guacamole, then, if only takes three ingredients (avocado, salt and lon juice).

I went ahead and grated my Ion stone, but it just made everything... glow-y.

 

[Faolyn]

Define "hurt."

Financial harm, as I and many others have said.

Do we need to talk about the employment practices of Amazon?
Shall we discuss the environmental practices of ExxonMobil? No? How about the ways in which the rare earths got into your cell phone?
Okay. How about the anti-competitive practices of WalMart? Facebook? Google?
Maybe we engage in some round-robin discussion about actual harms done by corporate entities, from the big ones to the small ones?

What do any of these companies have to do with WotC? Do you have an argument that doesn't involve a whataboutism?

So you ask if this is okay with me. And my answer is this- yeah, actually. I totally understood why they did what they did, and I also am glad that they have backed down.

Yeah, I'm not cool with saying "thank you for not hurting me."

How do you actually know that? We had a lot of pushback, and things have changed, but my goodness ... if people cares 1% as much about the actual harm being done as they do about this, then the world might be a better place, right?

You are aware that this is gaming forum with a fairly strict policy on discussing real-world politics, right? Do you have any reason to believe that people aren't caring as much about the actual harm being done by other companies and simply not talking about it here?

And again, this whataboutism fails to address the actual issues.

Seriously ... no actual harm happened. None.

But only because it was stopped.

When people are comparing this to murder, they're not saying that it's as bad as murder. They're pointing out that attempted murder is also a crime.

WotC attempted to cause financial harm to a lot of people, which would have very likely resulted in a loss of 3rd party products and a much weaker game environment for everyone. The fact that they had to stop their plan due to massive backlash doesn't erase that attempt.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

So,  are you saying that we should be thankful that they didn't go through with their plan to hurt people? Is that the takeaway from your statements?

First, I don't much cotton to the hyperbole. Given a lot of actual evil, a desire to change licensing terms, however poorly thought out, isn't a "plan to hurt people."

Second, I don't much care what you are thankful for, as I am sure you don't care what I am thankful for. But very little of what I am thankful for has to do with the inner machinations of corporations.

I am reasonably pleased that a Hasbro is a billion dollar corporation that is responsive to its community, and changed course fairly quickly in response. I think that's good. I wish more companies would do that. Don't you?

And since the OP hasn't answered me, what do  you think "getting on-board with WotC" actually means?

No idea.

Before this mess, I was planning on watching the movie and maybe buying the Planescape and possibly buying the Deck of Many Things books.

After this mess, I am planning on watching the movie and maybe buying the Planescape and possibly buying the Deck of Many Things books.

YMMV.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

When people are comparing this to murder, they're not saying that it's as bad as murder. They're pointing out that attempted murder is also a crime.

Sorry, you've completely lost me.

When people are comparing this to the Shoah, they aren't saying it's as bad as an actual genocide. They're pointing out that attempting to hurt lots of people is also bad.

There may not be a pithy term like Godwin's law for comparing a contract dispute to murder, but ..... yep.

If you believe that your continued comparisons of this to murder make you and your argument look good, whereas my attempts to portray this in comparison to what other corporations do that you ignore is "whataboutism" works for you, good. It's not working for me. K? Thx.

 

[Maxperson]

I went ahead and grated my Ion stone, but it just made everything... glow-y.

I have to say, even though I don't like guacamole, I'd try any guacamole that circled around my head.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I have to say, even though I don't like guacamole, I'd try any guacamole that circled around my head.

I cannot believe that they haven't expelled you from California.

Don't you get tired of saying, Hold the avocado?