It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[ECMO3]

You seem unable to see a difference between WotC and 5e or Dungeons & Dragons in general. Rest assured some of us here do.

No, I can distinguish between them, but WOTC far and away has the most 5E content, and the most customers. WOTC 5E material also dominates the market of fan content and 3rd party creators leverage that.

If you are not buying WOTC 5E content then you are also not watching optimization videos on that content, buying stuff from DMs Guild that leverages that content or playing in paid games that include that content and that will hurt those 3rd party creators.

For example, watching a video on optimizing an artificer is pretty useless if you refuse to buy the product that includes the Artificer class and are therefore not watching that video, when you otherwise would - that hurts 3rd party creators.

Sorry but if you restrict yourself only to the SRD and 3rd party 5E material you are hurting many 3rd party creators

 

[Maxperson]

My definition is what I am making decisions on. The 3pps I have listened to have mostly praised WOTC for changing their mind and at least one of them is making the same argument I am (if not using the same verbiage).

You haven't read many of Morrus's comments on this have you? And you're ignoring ORC and the myriad of 3PP who will be going to that and leaving WotC.

 

[Pedantic]

What about the people who are being harmed by the community boycots? Is that self-serving to hurt 3rd party creators because you are upset at what WOTC did?



Would have, could have, didn't.



I agree and I was a small part of that uproar, on this board, on DNDBeyond, in the gaming groups I played in, in the "playtest" and in the actuals letters I wrote and mailed to multiple individuals at Hasbro and WOTC.

I absolutely agree with you that less harm would have occurred and we would be in a better place had the OGL never been touched. Clearly, cancelled projects, potential loss of customers to other systems, less interest in 5e compatible products and so forth are all outcomes of this situation.

The disconnect here is where you're putting the blame. That's all WotC's fault. They did this the moment the put the word "deauthorized" into the wild. It's not incumbent on the people they lied to to take care of the most injured subset of people they lied to.

WotC should be taking aggressive steps to try and getting back the world they wrecked. The CC release was a good start, and they've done a reasonable job of talking accountability. They'll need to do more and longer, and it's probably impossible to bring us back to where we used to be, but that's definitely not my job. I didn't touch the OGL, and I'm not particularly interested in forgiving the institution that did. It's on them to persuade me I should.

 

[ECMO3]

one video is not the full extent of the available information though, is it. As I said, the document with in line comments was leaked, the contract itself was not (because there is a decent chance it would identify the leaker), but both were sent together.

View attachment 274770

And this has been refuted by several 3rd party creators and some of the lawyer videos. Unless you have a copy of the contract you have no proof. Maybe I am wrong, maybe they are wrong but this post does not prove anything.

I will also add that the post you chose to use actually says on it "We are not your enemies" and "Just don't mess with 1.0a" which they didn't.

 

[ECMO3]

You haven't read many of Morrus's comments on this have you? And you're ignoring ORC and the myriad of 3PP who will be going to that and leaving WotC.

I don't think many of them are leaving WOTC.

Paizo in particular said they were not going to leave OGL1.0a and in fact they were willing to go to court to keep producing on it, and that was AFTER they joined the ORC.

Just because you join this new ORC does not mean you will leave WOTC or stop producing content under OGL1.0a or now CC.

 

[Maxperson]

No. 3rd party creators are being harmed when people move away from D&D 5E.

If I move away from 5e, it will be back to 3.5 or maybe 1e Pathfinder. If 3PP can't do well with 5e, they can still produce stuff for those editions.

In fact that is the only reason revoking the OGL would have harmed them at all.

Riiiiiiight, because not being able to actually make things for 5e anymore wouldn't have cost them any money.

 

[Maxperson]

Paizo in particular said they were not going to leave OGL1.0a and in fact they were willing to go to court to keep producing on it, and that was AFTER they joined the ORC.

You do realize that's because they use OGL 1.0a to make Pathfinder, right? They aren't suddenly going to be making lots of 5e stuff.

 

[ECMO3]

The disconnect here is where you're putting the blame. That's all WotC's fault. They did this the moment the put the word "deauthorized" into the wild. It's not incumbent on the people they lied to to take care of the most injured subset of people they lied to.

The people doing further harm to the community of 5E creators right now are WOTC people. You can say it is their fault, but they are not the ones doing it at this time.

 

[mamba]

No, I can distinguish between them, but WOTC far and away has the most 5E content, and the most customers. WOTC 5E material also dominates the market of fan content and 3rd party creators leverage that.

If you are not buying WOTC 5E content then you are also not watching optimization videos on that content, buying stuff from DMs Guild that leverages that content or playing in paid games that include that content and that will hurt those 3rd party creators.

For example, watching a video on optimizing an artificer is pretty useless if you refuse to buy the product that includes the Artificer class and are therefore not watching that video, when you otherwise would - that hurts 3rd party creators.

Sorry but if you restrict yourself only to the SRD and 3rd party 5E material you are hurting many 3rd party creators

not sure I get your point. Let's say in January I spend $100 on various 5e 3pp products, watched 5 videos that interested me and played in two games in a paid campaign I want to be in. That leaves tons of products I did not buy / watch / interact with.

The same would still be true if I had bought different products, watched different videos and had paid a different DM.

If me not buying everything out there is somehow hurting those that produce that material, then sorry, but then there is no way for me to not hurt almost all of them. At that point this whole argument becomes moot.

 

[ECMO3]

If I move away from 5e, it will be back to 3.5 or maybe 1e Pathfinder. If 3PP can't do well with 5e, they can still produce stuff for those editions.

And if you move away from 5E creators to do that you are hurting those creators. You are causing the very thing we all did not want to happen.

Riiiiiiight, because not being able to actually make things for 5e anymore wouldn't have cost them any money.

It absolutely would have cost them money. That is what most of the fight was about and we won. They are allowed to "keep making things for 5e" and were never stopped.

And now that they are allowed to keep producing, people no longer buying their products because they are moving away from 5E will hurt them going forward.