It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[mamba]

And this has been refuted by several 3rd party creators.

who? I have not heard that refuted

Unless you have a copy of the contract you have no proof.

so we are both in the same boat then

Maybe I am wrong, maybe they are wrong but this post does not make them right.

it sure makes them more right / reliable than your unnamed hear-say youtuber, because they actually received the contract (this is my assumption based on them being one of the largest 5e 3pps)

 

[Scribe]

No. 3rd party creators are being harmed when people move away from D&D 5E. In fact that is the only reason revoking the OGL would have harmed them at all.

If people could just walk away and stop playing 5E and these creators would be unharmed then revoking the OGL would have been meaningless.

So we should support a sleezy corporation, on behalf of and for 3PP??

Lets pretend, I like 5e. Lets then pretend, I can still buy 3PP product, without giving Wizbro a dime.

Are you satisfied then?

 

[ECMO3]

not sure I get your point. Let's say in January I spend $100 on various 5e 3pp products, watched 5 videos that interested me and played in two games in a paid campaign I want to be in. That leaves tons of products I did not buy / watch / interact with.

Right and if you did not buy them because of what happened with the OGL or because you are swearing off WOTC then you hurt those creators of the stuff you did not buy/watch/interact with.

Further, you can find 3p content not based on WOTC protected IP, but it is a very, very small part of the available content, particularly when you include professional DMs in that discussion.

So if everyone does what you are going to do and swears off WOTC content then thousands of businesses will fail. I think a majority of the 3rd party creators will fail and most who don't will need to change their business model.

 

[Maxperson]

And if you move away from 5E creators to do that you are hurting those creators.

You might as well say that all the people who don't play 5e are hurting those creators, because if they did play 5e they would be spending lots of money on 3PP stuff.

If people move away from 5e D&D, the creators will follow.

It absolutely would have cost them money. That is what most of the fight was about and we won. They are allowed to "keep making things for 5e" and were never stopped.

But even though I don't think it will ever happen, there is still the off chance that WotC ends OGL 1.0a anyway at some point. The SRD 5.1 only has about 10% of what people can access through OGL 1.0a.

 

[ECMO3]

You do realize that's because they use OGL 1.0a to make Pathfinder, right? They aren't suddenly going to be making lots of 5e stuff.

Yes. My point is they are not leaving it.

Do you think they will stop producing PF just to protest WOTC and not use their license any more?

 

[mamba]

Right and if you did not buy them because of what happened with the OGL or because you are swearing off WOTC then you hurt those creators of the stuff you did not buy/watch/interact with.

why would I buy some 5e 3pp products but not others because of what happened? Obviously this was not my criteria...

Further, you can find 3p content not based on WOTC protected IP, but it is a very, very small part of the available content, particularly when you include professional DMs in that discussion.

Well, here's to hoping that niche grows

So if everyone does what you are going to do and swears off WOTC content then thousands of businesses will fail. I think a majority of the 3rd party creators will fail and most who don't will need to change their business model.

this does not apply to me... for one I am still buying 5e 3pp products, for another I did not even say that I am boycotting WotC. I definitely have a higher hurdle for them to clear now and will definitely buy more non-5e products in general (branching out into different TTRPGs) however.

Does that hurt 5e 3pp? Not sure, is Kobold Press hurt because I do not buy their 5e book of subclasses but instead buy their Black Flag line of products? I doubt it...

 

[ECMO3]

You might as well say that all the people who don't play 5e are hurting those creators, because if they did play 5e they would be spending lots of money on 3PP stuff.

They are. But if you are leaving 5E because of WOTC then you are taking further actions which will harm 3p creators because of what WOTC did instead of protecting the very creators we were supposedly trying to protect.

If people move away from 5e D&D, the creators will follow.

Not many of them. If you watched videos from Treantmonk, Ginny Di, Dungeon Dudes, D4 Deep Dive and Pack Tactics during the worst part of this - Several of them explicitly said they would not move away from 5E and all of them expressed concern over what this meant for them going forward to include potential business failure.

This is in addition to the many, many small time guys.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

So we are going to trust WOTC then?

When someone admits they caused someone else harm. Sure. Unlikely they're being deceitful.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes. My point is they are not leaving it.

Your point is wrong. I know some who will never go back to 5e. I've heard of many more. Are all of them leaving? No. Many are, though.

Do you think they will stop producing PF just to protest WOTC and not use their license any more?

You completely miss the point. Pathfinder =/= 5e, so bringing up Paizo in defense of your current argument isn't helpful to you. It's irrelevant whether they are leaving OGL 1.0a nor not.

 

[mamba]

If you watched videos from Treantmonk, Ginny Di, Dungeon Dudes, D4 Deep Dive and Pack Tactics during the worst part of this - Several of them explicitly said they would not move away from 5E and all of them expressed concern over what this meant for them going forward to include potential business failure.

No one is asking them to abandon 5e. If however they fear that staying with 5e could very well result in their businesses failing, then they would be foolish not to hedge their bets.

I don't know most of these. I know the Dungeon Dudes made an adventure, I know Ginny Di makes videos, not aware of any actual products however. The others I do not know at all.

If all you make are videos, then the easiest solution is to not exclusively make 5e content. You can still mostly do 5e (because I assume that is what most people will watch regardless), and if something else picks up, you will hopefully notice and not get blindsided at least and can increase coverage of whatever that is.

If they did not exclusively focus on 5e, the whole hobby would be better for it anyway, so that is a win-win in my book. The same is true for people creating actual products, but there it is harder because the investment is much higher, so there you probably are better off sticking with 5e and just watching the market.