Kyle Brink Interviewed by Teos Abadia (Alphastream) on OGL, WotC, & D&D

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full context. Company Structure There's around 30 people on the D&D team, and that many again freelancers...

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full context.

Company Structure
  • There's around 30 people on the D&D team, and that many again freelancers.​
  • The hiring process has equity targets to bring in a representative sample of candidates, after which it is who is the best candidate.​
  • There has been increasing diversity in the pool of designers while maintaining quality.​
  • Brink reports to Dan Rawson, senior VP of D&D, who reports to Cynthia Williams, president.​
  • D&D Beyond is the front door to D&D on the web and will be even more so. It is the D&D website, and will become more so.​
  • D&D Game Studio is center for game content. D&D Beyond turns that into a play service. Content gets expressed in ways appropriate to an audiance (ie digital, book, etc.)​
OGL/Creative Commons
  • It was a surprise to some of the D&D team that the OGL might be changed. Partly that was about shielding them from distracting stuff. Brink feels that was too strong a wall and their views might have been beneficial.
  • Some internal feedback from the D&D team reflected the views of external creators.
  • The community's point of view was not the one wining internally, but may have been had people there been able to speak more loudly.
  • The worry was about new technologies and big companies--Brink uses the VR example, with user generated content but poor content controls. They didn't want the term D&D to become 'that video porn game' looking ahead.
  • The position now is that the community is the strongest weapon against that.
  • The royalties were to discourage big companies moving in and redefining D&D. By 'drips and drips' they got to the wrong position. $750K was a ceiling which they felt would not affect most creators, and larger companies would deal directly with WotC.
  • Right now they're looking at protecting D&D via things not now in the Creative Commons. Community protects the open space and WotC protects copyright and trademark.
  • They feel that the community is able to take care of hateful content.
  • They want the creator community. A deal where WotC got more powers to act but lost the creator community was not a good deal.
  • NFTs are not the concern, it's about how people use them for scams.
  • WotC will be publishing a content policy (for representation, hateful content, etc.) and hold themselves to it. They cannot hold others to it.
  • The Creative Commons license chosen's lack of sharealike attribution isn't a problem for WotC. They want people to build stuff they own and don't have to share and build value in their own IP. They've chosen the road which gives creators the choice, and can make any of their content sharealike, but WotC isn't forcing them to.
  • CC means that nobody has to take WotC's word for anything as they don't control that license.
  • The drive to change the OGL was coming from various parts of the organization (legal, business, studio). It was an ongoing effort when Brink arrived.
  • The faster the audience grew the bigger the risk that hateful content or scams would arise, so there was a rising sense of urgency to take action.
  • Did anybody sign the v1.1 version? It was distributed with an NDA, and with some creators a discussion about other arrnagements/licenses they might make separate from the OGL.
  • 'The impression someone could get that I have to sign v1.1 is absotely a believable impression for someone to get'.
  • The design of v1.1. was always going to be an ongoing no-signature process.
  • Feedback from larger creators like Kobold Press, the failing is on WotC for not communicating that they were listening. 'Thanks for the feedback' isn't enough.
  • 'If you're going to write a new OGL to protect yourself from the vulnerabilties of the old OGL, you kinda have to take the old OGL off the table, otherwise you're not protecting yourself at all'. There's no point in changing the OGL if you don't de-authorize the old one.
  • They weren't worried about competitors arising from within the community. They love the creator community, and WotC can't satisfy all appetites. That serves the broad needs of the player community.
  • They wanted to have closer relationships with the most successful creators, talking to them about licenses and going bigger. The tiering structure was meant to identify those creators. 'The way it was executed was very cleary going to be an attenuating destructive structure which we did not want.'
  • The OGL survey results were clear, from a range of people, 15000 responses. The intent was to treat it like a playtest but it became obvious where it was going. The survey feedback supported CC, and there was no reason to drag it out.
  • WotC still has their concerns, but their approach to it has changed (to a combo of copyrght/trademark and community).
  • Putting D&D into CC has made de-authing the OGL unimportant to WotC.
  • The SRD will be updated to continue to be compatible with evolving rules.
  • They're looking at adding the 3.5 SRD to the SRD but they have to review that content to make sure they're not accidentally putting stuff into CC.
Company Culture
  • People being afraid to speak up is a sign of 'immature management' and leading from ego.
  • That's not the kind of leaders WotC has today, but Brink cannot speak about those who were there before he arrived.
  • Brink feels that every month he is there people feel more comfortable speaking up, though that doesn't mean they'll always agree. But they will listen.
  • 'That's not how we operate today but I can certainly believe echoes of that in the past'.
VTTs/Digital/DDB
  • Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds are important to the hobby and WotC.
  • WotC is also making digital playspaces. The goal is to give more choice. The way WotC succeeds is if they make the best stuff. It's a 'virtuos' competition.
  • The license that Roll20 etc. has to sell WotC content still applies. Remains to be seen down the road.
  • It's possible that third party content will be seen inside DDB or the VTT but it takes a fair amount of work to being a piece of content in. It would have to be a pretty important piece of third party content. Brink could see a day when that would happen.
One D&D
  • The OGL issue has not impacted the One D&D strategy. It has maybe helped WotC express their plans publicly.
  • D&D should be a living game which evolves but is familiar.
  • The One D&D timeline is not changed, but the playtest timeline was impacted by the OGL situation. They'll get back on track real soon.
  • A professional research team gathers the survey information.
  • There are also internal playtests with robust feedback.
Other
  • The game team has gained more of a voice.
  • More trust has been built between design leadership and the executive team.
  • Dan Rawson's role is new and is the first time the D&D brand has been represented at that level at the executive level.
  • Cynthia Williams is empathetic and data-oriented, and willing to change direction.
  • It sounds like they'd consider the SRD being placed into French, German, Italian, and Spanish, though Brink did not promise.
 

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We can attach adjectives to opinions we disagree, but I don’t think that is likely to be fruitful.
This is my characterisation of this singular statement, not of you as a person. I stand by that adjective as it pertains to this statement.
Corporations have a character. They have goals, they have motivations driven by things like who is in charge and share holder interest. They also have a corporate culture. I think this very clearly showed where WOTC’s priorities are going to be focused (more on maximizing profit for its shareholders and less about D&D itself). There may be people in the company who are passionate about D&D; it is pretty clear to me they are not the ones calling the shots, just being made a public face in the wake of a PR disaster.

This idea that companies are such a collective we can’t make judgments about them or describe their character, to be seems like a strange concept. Also it keeps getting raised when people voice criticism of WOTC so it feels like a rhetorical bludgeon. We all understand a corporation doesn’t have a literal face, that it is a fluid entity, but that doesn’t mean some companies are not worse or less trustworthy than others. And it also doesn’t mean people shouldn’t walk away from what happened with an understanding that having a corporation like HASBRO in charge of D&D may not be good for the hobby.

That said, this is going to involve ones personal judgment of what they are seeing. Other people will look at WOTC’s statements and actions and reach different conclusions than me.
Okay. But a company is composed of people. The composition of the attitudes of those individuals creates a persona for that company (most particularly the attitudes and intentions of those near the top of the 'food chain'). As those people are shifted in and out (or as they grow and change as human beings), the composite's attitude changes too.
 

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Okay. But a company is composed of people. The composition of the attitudes of those individuals creates a persona for that company (most particularly the attitudes and intentions of those near the top of the 'food chain'). As those people are shifted in and out (or as they grow and change as human beings), the composite's attitude changes too.

Sure, companies change as do people. And an institution can change due to a shift in personnel (though I would say structure and it’s interests play a big role too). And as a company changes my attitude towards it might also change. I am not getting an impression that the company’s character has changed here. I am getting the impression they are engaged in spin and trying to shift focus away from what they did.

And there is a bigger issue this has revealed. Having a large corporation not led by gamers in charge of the most central game to the hobby may itself be an issue. I am not saying other people have to agree with me or go my way on this, but I will be putting my money and energy into gamer led companies that are smaller in size

Also it is worth noting here I am generally not someone who believes I should expect much from corporations driven by profit motive. So I usually just buy what products I like. But in this case their actions directly impact a hobby I have been in since I was a kid and that I have been involved professionally. So I think it is fair to care what the character and goals of WOTC/Hasbro seem to be. I feel the same way with music IP issues for example.
 


Sure, companies change as do people. And an institution can change due to a shift in personnel (though I would say structure and it’s interests play a big role too). And as a company changes my attitude towards it might also change. I am not getting an impression that the company’s character has changed here. I am getting the impression they are engaged in spin and trying to shift focus away from what they did.
That's a fair assessment. I read it a bit differently, in that I mostly took what Brink said at face value. To me, this read as a behind the scenes look at what was happening rather than after the fact spin job (i.e. there were some elements who pushed for a duplicitous termination of the existing open licensing set up).
And there is a bigger issue this has revealed. Having a large corporation not led by gamers in charge of the most central game to the hobby may itself be an issue. I am not saying other people have to agree with me or go my way on this, but I will be putting my money and energy into gamer led companies that are smaller in size
Agreed. The fact that gamers are not in charge could cause issues. But intelligent ownership (i.e. Warren Buffett) attempts to not slap their personal ideology as a boilerplate on companies the acquire. See also the behaviour of the Roman Empire on their conquests. Assume that those who have made something successful know better how to make their thing successful.
Also it is worth noting here I am generally not someone who believes I should expect much from corporations driven by profit motive. So I usually just buy what products I like. But in this case their actions directly impact a hobby I have been in since I was a kid and that I have been involved professionally. So I think it is fair to care what the character and goals of WOTC/Hasbro seem to be. I feel the same way with music IP issues for example.
I understand...
 


People declaring that Hasbro was deliberately being maximally evil are, IMO, generally giving Hasbro way too much credit. This whole fiasco is, in fact, adequately explained by the usual levels of ignorance and poor communications that happen inside a large corporation. Let me get my father to tell you some of his stories about working in GM middle management in the 1980s and 1990s . . .
Who is saying maximally?

This is like 3/10 for Evil and 10/10 for Stupid.

But my point is that they had obvious simple options for dealing with what Kyle was talking about, and instead of taking the options which actually targeted the large competitors. And they intentionally and knowingly didn't take them. Kyle said that he and others did try to change the number higher and higher, but weren't listened to.

Btw it's interesting no-one except me has AFAIK ever mentioned the one real time a "large competitor" thing did actually happen. Is it that poorly known? The Metaverse thing was essentially nothing - it's not like they could use D&D's name or whatever. But a couple of years ago, D&D Beyond had some material from an interesting "3PP" - Riot Games - The League of Legends people. Riot Games is genuinely bigger than WotC. Not bigger than Hasbro, but bigger than WotC. More revenue, more employees. And D&D Beyond published a couple of subclasses and some setting info from Riot Games League of Legends universe. It was cool if not very well-balanced, like, um, most subclasses (including a lot of WotC ones). Then SOMETHING HAPPENED. What has never been revealed. But suddenly this content was only going to be available for a very short time, which had not previously been the case. To me this strongly suggests WotC stepped in and said "Yo stop this right now or we're going to terminate our contract with you". But that's the closest I've seen to any real "large competitor" cashing in on D&D. Funnily enough I suspect if Riot had just come to WotC and asked to publish a sourcebook or similar via WotC, I suspect they'd have been fine.
 



There has to be at least SOME connection, right?
I mean, it depends on the industry and the product and how you define quality. With an RPG, I think there are minimum standards. If an RPG is just plain not fun to play for most people, if the art is terrible, if the layout is terrible, if it's confusingly or just plain badly written, that can all hurt it a huge amount. On the flipside, many RPGs that are clearly on-par (let's not argue over who is superior, it's pointless) to D&D in many of these ways don't do even a fraction of D&D's numbers, and that shows that quality is more of a minimum requirement than what propels the business. Marketing and factors like cultural inertia are absolutely huge.

So there is a connection, but it's not "high quality = high sales", more's the pity. Never has been in the RPG industry, and it's demonstrable.
 

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