D&D (2024) Smite Changes

[Stalker0]

No. This just makes bow fighters run away and shoot anyway.

which also provokes an OA for moving out of the threatened area. With this idea, if an archer gets in melee, the only way to avoid an OA is to disengage or to switch to a melee weapon when attacking.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

How?
It's an attack of opportunity?
it can't be simpler than that.

You may be right, and I may be a bit gun-shy from 4e's cascading opportunity attacks. Which slowed up that game a lot.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

which also provokes an OA for moving out of the threatened area. With this idea, if an archer gets in melee, the only way to avoid an OA is to disengage or to switch to a melee weapon when attacking.

Of course both force OAs. But if I force an OA, I can as well move back 30ft and not attack with disadvantage.
So you effectively add a non penalty, as shooing from melee is always the inferior option.

 

[Bill Zebub]

No. This just makes bow fighters run away and shoot anyway. Granting advantage seems to be a better way to make using ranged weapons in melee punishing.
Probably just generally granting advantage to all melee attacks for an entire turn could be a way to generally balance ranged attacks...

I scratched by head on this at first, but I think you mean that after making a ranged attack, enemies can run up to you and attack you with advantage. So it's not making a ranged attack within reach of an opponent that causes the debuff, it's simply making a ranged attack, from anywhere. Right?

Ok, I'm coming around on this.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I scratched by head on this at first, but I think you mean that after making a ranged attack, enemies can run up to you and attack you with advantage. So it's not making a ranged attack within reach of an opponent that causes the debuff, it's simply making a ranged attack, from anywhere. Right?

Ok, I'm coming around on this.

Yes. Exactly.

 

[tetrasodium]

We were talking about a paladin being able to add smite damage to an unarmed attack. The outcome of making an attack is neither inevitable nor predetermined.

Can you describe what gameplay looks like at your table? It sounds like you are using some kind of blind roll system where the players don't know the result of their d20 & have no idea if they are adding a smite to a 1 a 20 or somewhere between the two. Most tables also tend to notice things like bob hit the bad guy on a roll of X but alice missed with a Y so if Dave's d20+mods≥X the smite is guaranteed to land... does that not occu at your table either?

The control water example @Chaosmancer made in post 69 is flawed but nicely illustrates why this kind of poorly designed quantum retcon action ability. Control water involves a strength save, the player needs to cast the 4th level spell & consume the 4th level slot it uses before calling for the strength save. The plater doesn't get to call for a DC XX strength save then after learning pass/fail decide if they are casting the 4th level spell slot consuming control water or a cantrip like gust or lightning lure that consumes nothing but an action.

If it's an ability that is only ever supposed to succeed it's an ability that needs to be tuned for an always active function like sneak attack or radiant strikes not an attrition based resource as it is. Smite's "best of both let the GM be duct tape for the cracks" is just unreasonable

 

[MarkB]

Can you describe what gameplay looks like at your table? It sounds like you are using some kind of blind roll system where the players don't know the result of their d20 & have no idea if they are adding a smite to a 1 a 20 or somewhere between the two. Most tables also tend to notice things like bob hit the bad guy on a roll of X but alice missed with a Y so if Dave's d20+mods≥X the smite is guaranteed to land... does that not occu at your table either?

The control water example @Chaosmancer made in post 69 is flawed but nicely illustrates why this kind of poorly designed quantum retcon action ability. Control water involves a strength save, the player needs to cast the 4th level spell & consume the 4th level slot it uses before calling for the strength save. The plater doesn't get to call for a DC XX strength save then after learning pass/fail decide if they are casting the 4th level spell slot consuming control water or a cantrip like gust or lightning lure that consumes nothing but an action.

If it's an ability that is only ever supposed to succeed it's an ability that needs to be tuned for an always active function like sneak attack or radiant strikes not an attrition based resource as it is. Smite's "best of both let the GM be duct tape for the cracks" is just unreasonable

I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but you are quite simply not conveying your point in a comprehensible manner. I don't see what distinction you are trying to make between a smite and any other kind of attack or action.

 

[tetrasodium]

I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but you are quite simply not conveying your point in a comprehensible manner. I don't see what distinction you are trying to make between a smite and any other kind of attack or action.

Where exactly did you get lost on the concept of players should need to declare a resource consuming action before the dice for that action are rolled rather than being allowed to roll the dice then after seeing the result of that roll declare the resource consuming action?

 

[MarkB]

Where exactly did you get lost on the concept of players should need to declare a resource consuming action before the dice for that action are rolled rather than being allowed to roll the dice then after seeing the result of that roll declare the resource consuming action?

Where you really didn't manage to say that clearly in your previous two replies.

You were also focusing on this being a problem with a specific scenario of players using this on an unarmed attack while being shackled as prisoners, whereas it seems that what you're actually objecting to is the way that paladins, battle masters, monks and probably a few other classes have been functioning since 5e was released.

 

[James Gasik]

If an enemy Wizard can cast Shield after I make my successful attack roll and cause it to miss, I don't see why the power of God can't let me decide I'm smiting until I know I hit.