D&D (2024) Less (and different) spellcasting?

[TwoSix]

More rituals? Maybe +1 on the check for each extra round you spend casting? Maybe only risk it if the situation is worth it? Maybe supercharge cantrips so that even if you get really unlucky and lock out all your spell levels, you still have good cantrips? Maybe play a Wizard if you want out-of-combat casting?

I don't know the exact answer, but I tend to not throw ideas out completely just because the first pass isn't perfect. (I know, I know....99% of the entire 1D&D discussion is exactly that so WTF am I doing here?)

And you may be right; it might just not work.

It can work, but we can look back at the 3e Truenamer to see how difficult creating a skill-check based casting system can be in a normal D&D environment.

It's much easier to do if it's the only casting type available; but compared to the ease of use and reliability of standard D&D magic it's a hard sell.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I think my issue with the D&D spell list is that it's both exactly the same and weirdly specific.

Working with Savage Worlds and its "trappings" system, I began to realize that a good chunk of D&D spells are just flavorful effects for doing the exact same thing. If that's all it is, we don't need 200 pages of spells to cover 20 base effects with a bunch of finicky mechanics. It starts feeling more and more like a pointlessly complicated system that ultimately results in people mostly using some subset of the same 15 spells.

Gotta admit I hate the D&D magic system.

 

[Vael]

Less? Meh. Not super interested in cutting down casters.
Different? Now ... I'm interested, but not for the core PHB classes. I'm into seeing very different styles of magic, like I want Psionics that isn't just spellcasting, I think I'm one of the few fans of Incarnum from 3.5. I think I want the Artificer to have an system of infusions that replace, not supplement spellcasting.

 

[fuindordm]

Warlocks, Druids, Bards and Sorcerers should be 2/3rd casters.

That leaves only Wizards and Clerics as full casters.

Also there should be official option in PHB for spell-less Ranger and Paladin.

remove EK and AT as fighter and rogue subclasses and make full classes of "sword mage" or "spell thief" as their replacements as 1/2 casters.

I mostly agree with this suggestion. I think druids ought to be full casters--I see them as a better representation of many iconic magicians (e.g. Merlin) than the Wizard. But in this case the class design should focus on their spell list, not on wild shape. A druid is kind of a full caster cleric/wizard hybrid.

Sorcerers should not be a class at all--the slight difference in spellcasting mechanics never made them feel special. But if they are a class then they should have more and stronger innate powers related to their bloodline, not imitate wizards through the spell list, so I agree with 2/3 progression.

Warlocks and Bards advancing at 2/3 level and maxing out at 7th level spells also sounds appropriate, but for Bards it's hard to imagine what powers to give them to make up for the gap. Their innate class abilities are a bit soft.

 

[MoonSong]

Seeing lots of sorcerer hate here. I do want to see less magic and spellcasting, but druid and sorcerer aren't the places to take it out off. Druids have always been cleric peers in terms of power. As for sorcerers, yeah let's fix an underpowered and hard to play class by making it even more esoteric to play and less powerful, yay! Who would want to play a class with a wide array of origins, backgrounds and that more closely mirrors magic users in folklore and popular culture when you can be a wizard which can only have one origin and one basic background?

 

[Gadget]

I like the idea of a Warlock Invocations like features for most classes. Come to think of it, Battlemasters have maneuvers, Sorcerers have meta magic, etc. I kind of thought that 5e would be more like this, but I guess they were gun shy after 4e push back and made everything explicitly a spell. And made it very easy to raid or cherry pick other classes' spells at that. 1D&D seems even more like this.

I'm not a big fan of Druid's not being full casters and doubling down on wild-shape as their core schtick.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I like the idea of a Warlock Invocations like features for most classes. Come to think of it, Battlemasters have maneuvers, Sorcerers have meta magic, etc. I kind of thought that 5e would be more like this, but I guess they were gun shy after 4e push back and made everything explicitly a spell. And made it very easy to raid or cherry pick other classes' spells at that. 1D&D seems even more like this.

100% agree.

I'm not a big fan of Druid's not being full casters and doubling down on wild-shape as their core schtick.

Yeah, that hasn't been my most popular idea. :-/

If I ever end up a supervillain, I want you all to know it started with this rejection.

 

[MoonSong]

100% agree.



Yeah, that hasn't been my most popular idea. :-/

If I ever end up a supervillain, I want you all to know it started with this rejection.

Don't worry, being a supervillain takes a ton of money.

 

[Incenjucar]

Overall I'd like the different kinds of supernatural abilities to work differently in a way that syncs with their lore better.

Non-divine monster innate magic should be a bit more "organic" in how it works. Sorcerer magic should closely resemble monster innate magic. Primal magic should lean toward this as well, but a bit more restricted.

Divine magic can lean heavily toward much more elaborate and arbitrary structure, since it's expressing the symbolic will of a deity, but still have that raw force.

Warlock, Wizard, and Bard spell magic should be in the middle, since it's based on hacking the more natural magic of the world, or a twisted version of divine channeling, like a human inventing an ink gun after seeing a squid use its ink defense, or getting an ink gun from their seedy contact in a trench coat.

A sorcerer might use a spell that allows them to construct a dimensional space that they can roughly shape into something like a comfortable cave den with a pond of clean water based on draconic lair magic, while a wizard would have a spell called Candyton's Credulous Campsite that conjures a dimensional space with a cozy campsite with a prelit fire, pre-warmed beds, endless wine casks, and phantom music to relax with, and a cleric conjures a pocket temple with an altar to their deity, a bowl of nourishing fruit, some warm herbal tea, and spartan cots.

 

[ECMO3]

Combining ideas from several different threads, I'm imagining a world (that will never occur, at least not under WotC's watch) in which:

• Rangers don't have normal spell slots. Instead they have something like Warlock Invocations, in which they get to pick and choose their favorite toys, some of which may involve spells.
• Paladins don't have spells at all. Instead they are designed like Battlemasters or Sorcerers, in which they have a resource they can spend on Smites. They get to pick from a list of Smites, getting more choices at higher levels, and swapping them out whenever they gain a level. They still get Lay on Hands, Auras, Channel Div, Fighting Style, Divine Sense, Faithful Steed, etc.
• Druids become half-casters, but their Shape-shifting becomes more powerful, plus some innate nature-y magic (like talking to animals, etc.)
• Sorcerers don't have spell slots. Instead they use the Five Torches Deep mechanic. (Briefly: no limit to spells cast per day, but every time you cast you make an Arcana check, and on a failure you can't cast that level spell until a long rest. Also, bad stuff can happen on a failure.)
• Bards become half-casters, also with an Invocation-like mechanic.

Let the hatred commence, but I would love a D&D that looked like this.

I hereby hate most of these.

- I would rather Rangers go the other way. I want full caster Rangers and I think they should get more "Arcane" spells in the base class than they currently have.

- I could do spell-free Paladins, that doesn't bother me. Whether we keep spells or not, I would like to get rid of smites completely. Make Paladins more like a holy fighter, damaging enemies with the sharp edge of their weapon, not the holy might that comes with it. Then give them some healing and the other stuff you mention at the end. Maybe offer a subclass that is the Paladin version of Eldritch Knight with Wisdom-based Cleric spell options.

Alteratively we could just get rid of Paladin as a class and make it a Fighter subclass with lay on hands and divine sense as 3rd level abilities, turn undead and find steed as a 7th level ability, Aura of Protection as a 10th level ability, Aura of Courage at 15th level and clensing touch at whatever level the last fighter subclass feature comes at.

- Druids should be full casters I think, but shapeshifting should be delayed until higher level, like around 10th level or so.

- I like the current sorcerer a lot. My only complain is I don't see a need for a Wizard, a Warlock and a Sorcerer as separate classes. I think they are all variations on the same thing.

- I am fine with making Bards half casters ... or just doing away with the class altogether TBH.