D&D (2024) Will Pact Magic survive?

[NaturalZero]

If they made short rests 5 minutes and balanced around that, pretty much all of the short vs long rest issues would evaporate.

 

[Pauln6]

If they made short rests 5 minutes and balanced around that, pretty much all of the short vs long rest issues would evaporate.

How does one balance around 5 minute short rests? Presumably that just makes those abilities useable once per fight or at-will out of combat?

 

[Dausuul]

When you're making any of those classes, you make a small handful of choices compared to a warlock.

In play, a warlock is less complicated ("I cast Eldritch Blast"), but when you're first making the character, especially as a newbie (see my original post)? There's a ton more choices for warlocks.

That's what I was specifically addressing.

That is true, but much of it could be fixed simply by turning the "essential picks" into core features. Agonizing Blast and eldritch blast, for example, should be hardwired into the class*. Hexblade and Thirsting Blade should be merged into Pact of the Blade. Et cetera. I will be very surprised if those things don't happen, regardless of what happens to pact magic.

As far as pact magic itself, there are two main issues. First is the high variation in short rests between tables (such that at many tables you might not even get one most days); second is the lack of scaling for many of the spells on the warlock list. The first will cease to be an issue if warlocks follow the general trend of changing short-rest abilities to "prof bonus times per day" ones. The second requires more work to add scaling options to spells, but doing so would benefit all classes and improve the game generally.

They really don't need to get rid of pact magic... which doesn't mean they won't. While I appreciate many of 1D&D's changes, they are pushing very hard on homogenizing the design. I hope this is just a stage in the evolution of the final game, and they will restore some flavor and variation once they've nailed down the core of the system.

*Assuming they want to keep eldritch blast as the single universal warlock ranged attack. Personally, I'd like to see some more variety. But EB is the safe, simple choice.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

How does one balance around 5 minute short rests? Presumably that just makes those ability useable once per fight or at-will out of combat?

I mostly agree, but I guess if we are okay with a given ability being once per encounter and (effectively) at-will out of combat then I prefer the narrative of it being tied to short rests to the gamier "per encounter" concept.

But you highlight the basic problem with a 5 minute short rest, which is that it makes anything useful out of combat almost impossible to balance around a once per short rest limitation, which closes a lot of design space. Whether or not that is design space WotC is using or really needs is a different question. Whether they should embrace "per encounter" abilities for some of the per short rest abilities is yet another question.

 

[Remathilis]

As far as pact magic itself, there are two main issues. First is the high variation in short rests between tables (such that at many tables you might not even get one most days); second is the lack of scaling for many of the spells on the warlock list. The first will cease to be an issue if warlocks follow the general trend of changing short-rest abilities to "prof bonus times per day" ones. The second requires more work to add scaling options to spells, but doing so would benefit all classes and improve the game generally.

I mean, the OTHER thing that fixes both of those problems is the standard 9-level spell progression. That way, you have a fixed, higher number of spells per day without worrying about midday recharge mechanics, and you have slots of every level to cast spells that don't benefit from upcasting. It's really the Occam's Razor solution, plus it plays nicely with multi-classing and is beginner friendly. And while it is a larger change, I don't see it as any more disruptive than the changes to bards and rangers becoming prep casters or druids having fixed wild shape stat blocks.

I mean, we can create all manner of patches, exceptions and corner case mechanics to fix pact magic's multitude of problems, but the easy answer is right there.

 

[Remathilis]

I suspect this will be the change to the Warlock, since they are trying to make the game backwards compatible. If this was an entirely new edition, I'd assume a massive overhaul to the class instead.

I don't see that change being much bigger than the current change to spellcasting. I mean rangers get two first level spells and two cantrips and can pick their spells from the druid (er primal) list. That is a pretty large change from the 5e ranger, even factoring in Tasha's. Having also seen what they did with wild shape, holy orders and the bard spell list, I don't really feel Pact magic is incredibly sacrosanct.

I just don't know how you fix it without making it even more complicated.

 

[TwoSix]

How does one balance around 5 minute short rests? Presumably that just makes those abilities useable once per fight or at-will out of combat?

The way we do it in my game is that short rests can be taken twice, but then you need a long rest to recharge them. They're also a character specific resource, one character can take a short rest without everyone else taking one.

 

[Dausuul]

That way, you have a fixed, higher number of spells per day without worrying about midday recharge mechanics, and you have slots of every level to cast spells that don't benefit from upcasting. It's really the Occam's Razor solution...

No, the Occam's Razor solution is to scrap the entire class. Scrap all caster classes except one, call it the magic-user, and make it serve all concepts equally. Pick your casting stat, pick your spell list, and you're good to go.

And I mean that in all seriousness. There is a very substantial cost to having so many classes -- both in needless complexity, and in concepts that can't be built. Why do we need a Wild Shape feature when we have alter self and polymorph? Why shouldn't Turn Undead and Bardic Inspiration be spells too? Why should the scholar-spellcaster be forbidden access to healing magic? Sweep away the cruft and focus all the designers' efforts on making one polished, balanced, versatile caster class that can be whatever you want it to be.

If 1D&D is indeed moving to prepared spells for everyone (gutting the sorcerer's raison d'etre, which was already on life support), the warlock is the only caster class left whose mechanics are distinct enough to justify standing on its own. Maybe that's not a good enough reason to keep it; but in that case, let's not waste designer time or page count on yet another 9-level caster with a coat of black paint.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The warlock is very popular.

I’d be amazed if they even propose dropping pact magic.

 

[Undrave]

That is true, but much of it could be fixed simply by turning the "essential picks" into core features. Agonizing Blast and eldritch blast, for example, should be hardwired into the class*. Hexblade and Thirsting Blade should be merged into Pact of the Blade. Et cetera. I will be very surprised if those things don't happen, regardless of what happens to pact magic.

I think Eldritch Blast as a class feature would make sense, make it channeling your patron's raw energy and have your patron affect its damage type.

As I suggested above, rename the Warlock's spell slots to 'Eldritch Charges' and then give the Eldtrich Blast feature extra damage (or something) when used while you have Eldritch Charges left, it'd make for some fun space to explore IMO.

I mean, the OTHER thing that fixes both of those problems is the standard 9-level spell progression. That way, you have a fixed, higher number of spells per day without worrying about midday recharge mechanics, and you have slots of every level to cast spells that don't benefit from upcasting. It's really the Occam's Razor solution, plus it plays nicely with multi-classing and is beginner friendly. And while it is a larger change, I don't see it as any more disruptive than the changes to bards and rangers becoming prep casters or druids having fixed wild shape stat blocks.

I mean, we can create all manner of patches, exceptions and corner case mechanics to fix pact magic's multitude of problems, but the easy answer is right there.

You mean the BORING solution. (Also: Screw level-based multiclassing.)