What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Ruin Explorer]

I'm not connecting the dots...How is Thirsty Sword Lesbian controversial content? Are you implying someone's chosen sexual preference is in some way akin to slavery? I'm honestly not getting this one.

I mean, that's not the comparison.

The problem is that, like it or not, some percentage of the US (and world) population unfortunately regards things like TSL as "controversial content". You can't really disagree on that given the factual political situation in the US (and many other places) right now.

The claim @Hussar appears to be making (and they haven't clarified on this) is that if there was certain "controversial content" in D&D, then that would count as "kicking Hussar out of the hobby", because Hussar would be unable to play D&D (presumably even in settings which didn't have that content?). It's a confusing argument, I admit, but it's what they appear to be claiming.

By the same logic, presumably any RPG existing with content you were uncomfortable with would be "kicking you out of the hobby". Even though you could just not play that RPG/setting.

An alternative interpretation is that TTRPGs and WotC D&D are separate "hobbies", but that's a whole other discussion. It's probably how WotC wants it though. A third interpretation, which was my initial understanding is that Hussar regarded people arguing with them on this as "kicking them out of the hobby", but I think that was a misunderstanding.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole thing, I dunno.

 

[MGibster]

Pretty much all the definitions of homophobic back me up. Just because a lot of people misuse the term, doesn't mean that those of us who don't misuse it have to accept their error. If we did, pretty much everyone is a hero.

Webster's defines homophobia as: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or gay people. I don't know if you checked all the dictionaries, I know I didn't, but if this is a hill you want to die on feel free. We could talk about other word peeves like irregardless or when people say flaunt when they mean flout.

 

[Kaodi]

I'm not connecting the dots...How is Thirsty Sword Lesbian controversial content? Are you implying someone's chosen sexual preference is in some way akin to slavery? I'm honestly not getting this one.

I think it has been mentioned several times in this thread that sexual attraction can be a bit of an icky concept to deal with at the gaming table. I would assume the controversy is not the "Lesbian" per se so much as the "Thirsty" . Like, if someone were to put out "Horny Axe Heteros" it would strongly suggest that sexual content was part of the game.

I have no experience with Thirsty Sword Lesbians, I have not even googled it yet, so I have no idea whether these assumptions based on the name hold true though.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

We could talk about other word peeves like irregardless or when people say flaunt when they mean flout.

Wow I've never even come across "flaunt" for "flout" but I'm now horrified on your behalf. "Irregardless" makes me want to smash pottery but I try and mentally file it in the same bin as flammable and inflammable meaning the same thing.

 

[billd91]

So please explain to me how one Adventurer's League scenario, the possibility of slavery in Dark Sun and three people are kicking you out of the hobby?

I mean even if you find me and a couple of other posters terribly obnoxious, and the fact we might like to include slavery as a plot device absolutely horrific, doesn't the rest of it more than make up for it?

In a lot of ways it comes down to lack of respect for differing viewpoints. You know how all those gaming tables and conventions were "so welcoming" to people when the hobby had a lot fewer women involved and a lot fewer people of color? You ever think that assessment was your point of view and not shared by a significant proportion of the types of people who weren't already at it?

This thread has so many posts from people complaining about publishers potentially avoiding controversial topics but how many of you are really thinking about the impression you're giving to people and how welcoming you are to them? Here you are, entrenched in privileged positions in the hobby, you think you look particularly welcoming to someone who isn't? Because it's pretty clear. Your own entrenched preferences are far more important than extending a hand to someone who is made uncomfortable by the topics.

 

[Maxperson]

Wow I've never even come across "flaunt" for "flout" but I'm now horrified on your behalf. "Irregardless" makes me want to smash pottery but I try and mentally file it in the same bin as flammable and inflammable meaning the same thing.

Yeah. When I first encountered that last one I just sort of scratched my head and wondered what possessed whoever it was that came up with that to do it.

 

[Imaro]

I don't think anyone is "trying to get" WotC to publish it - rather we're discussing why they haven't, and why they might think it would "damage the brand".

Honestly the most convincing reason anyone has come up with is that WotC-published D&D in the 5E era is resolutely PG-13, leaning even a little towards PG, despite the violence inherent in the system. It's not even really a slavery thing from that perspective.

I don't feel like this is the discussion we've been having as I think the answer to that questions would be more focused on the profit/potential customer base, etc. for this product vs. the backlash, bad PR, etc. it might get.

 

[Thourne]

In a lot of ways it comes down to lack of respect for differing viewpoints. You know how all those gaming tables and conventions were "so welcoming" to people when the hobby had a lot fewer women involved and a lot fewer people of color? You ever think that assessment was your point of view and not shared by a significant proportion of the types of people who weren't already at it?

This thread has so many posts from people complaining about publishers potentially avoiding controversial topics but how many of you are really thinking about the impression you're giving to people and how welcoming you are to them? Here you are, entrenched in privileged positions in the hobby, you think you look particularly welcoming to someone who isn't? Because it's pretty clear. Your own entrenched preferences are far more important than extending a hand to someone who is made uncomfortable by the topics.

Um, no. When engaging for play, I discuss the possibilities for a game with every player before even finalizing the sessions. I do not include anything anyone is uncomfortable with, let alone offended by.
None of this means I would like publishers to shy away from content. I simply don't use it where inappropriate.

 

[Imaro]

I think it has been mentioned several times in this thread that sexual attraction can be a bit of an icky concept to deal with at the gaming table. I would assume the controversy is not the "Lesbian" per se so much as the "Thirsty" . Like, if someone were to put out "Horny Axe Heteros" it would strongly suggest that sexual content was part of the game.

I have no experience with Thirsty Sword Lesbians, I have not even googled it yet, so I have no idea whether these assumptions based on the name hold true though.

Sorry... I thought rape, sexual harassment, etc. were the icky concepts. I haven't seen anyone espouse playing a mutual sexual attraction in rpg's as icky. Thirsty is slang and just means someone is really attracted to another person, often to the point where they look ridiculous or do ridiculous things to try and be with that person. It's only negative connotation, at least in my community is you often look like a goofball because of the lengths you'll go to get that person's attention.

 

[Thourne]

I don't feel like this is the discussion we've been having as I think the answer to that questions would be more focused on the profit/potential customer base, etc. for this product vs. the backlash, bad PR, etc. it might get.

I think we may be having several slightly different but related conversations and doing some talking past each other. So I wouldn't want to nail it down, but hey you could be right.