D&D 5E What is a Social challenge, anyways?

[Swarmkeeper]

I should have clarified that I would not make them roll just for the heck of it but when the situation can call for it. Let’s just say that in all my years of playing, I had to deal with powerplayers that dropped the knowledge and social stats (not talking exclusively with DnD here) to boost their physical ones and then expected to just roleplay out of the need to use the knowledge and social skills, so I had to adapt to these situations and make those players realise that there can be consequences to neglecting the knowledge and social attributes and that it’s not because they, as a player, know stuff that their character also knows it. Here again, it’s all about the intention of the player.

Luckily, I don’t have to deal with that kind of players now, the people I game with are experienced enough to not drop a stats just to boost another and will roleplay accordingly to how they built their characters.

Ah, understood. I do find these discussions more fruitful when we disregard what might happen with jerks at the table (spoiler: they can ruin anything and no set of rules is going to stop them... and.... their behavior should be dealt with away from the table). Instead, these discussions provide more value, IMO, when we talk about how we run our games with people who strive to play in good faith.

So we agree: the DM should call for rolls when appropriate. If a player with a low stat wants to risk the wrath of the d20 by trying something uncertain that will likely require a roll with that weak stat, so be it.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I find a perfectly functional sword while in a dungeon. I go to a shop, they want to give me 1/5th it's value.

But wait, according to my background, I belong to a Guild, so I go to the Guild store to sell it. 1/5th it's value.

I get a merchant's license and buy my own shop and try to sell it. 1/5 it's value.

So how does this economy work again?

I mean, this is not what the rules for Selling Treasure say on p 144 of the PHB, nor what the Guild Merchant variant background says on p 133. Perhaps you need to discuss further with your DM about these more restrictive house rules?

And, if your PC does become the shopkeeper, I would hope the DM lets you (try to) sell items for whatever value you see fit. Of course, this comes at the expense of less adventuring time (until you hire employees, I suppose) and just because you open a shop does not mean the NPCs are automatically going to flock there to buy your wares if another shop (or more?) already exists in the area. Seems like travelling merchant might be more lucrative (again, p 133) by mostly avoiding the competition in the relatively low-danger marketplaces of cities/towns but perhaps a bit more risky depending on where the adventuring day brings you.

 

[FrozenNorth]

To me, it seems weird to take a rules element - in D&D all swords have the same mechanical specifications, and there are no rules for blades being weak/strong/sharp/rusted etc - and then read that back into the fiction in spite of its unreality, and on that basis to criticise another rules element - the selling-of-scrap rules - on the basis that, when it is read back into the fiction, the resulting economy is not very realistic.

Exactly this. In any game with a simulationist bent, there will be times when the mechanics conflict with the fiction. When this happens, you can rule in favour of the mechanics (potentially modifying the fiction), or rule in favour of the fiction (modifying or ignoring the mechanic). No DM is 100% consistent about ruling in favour of the fiction or the mechanics either.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Uh, why wouldn't it? I can polish it up, it works the same, there's no statistical difference between the blades. Heck, maybe it's worth more because it's an antique or was made by a famous smith!

I remember in end of 2e and beginning of 3e we had diablo D&D books that had rusty weapons old weapons and brittle weapons... they gave penalties to damage mostly I think 1 of them to hit too...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

A good point that I came across reading the Monster of the Week guide (which is different than stakes), is “what is the PC offering?”.

I think that would reduce the number of times when players just roll persuasion to save 5 gp on plate mail.

In real life, you aren’t going to get far if your approach to haggling is “Ok, I’ve picked out what I want, how about I pay less for it?”

Wow, every single person in Nairobi is doing it wrong, lol. Heck, every single person in the Middle East (sorry, I know, I'm not trying to stereotype people, just making a point) is doing it wrong! Get out more! Barter is exactly what you describe, you go to the vendor, you say "what? $1.00!!!!????" and the guy sizes you up, and if you are M'zungu in Nairobi he frowns and doesn't answer and you pay your $1.00, you rich dork. If you look like you might be from from Kibara, well go away you don't even have half a shilling. If you are maybe from the West Side, OK, 50 cents.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I remember in end of 2e and beginning of 3e we had diablo D&D books that had rusty weapons old weapons and brittle weapons... they gave penalties to damage mostly I think 1 of them to hit too...

Never heard of that, lol. Dark Sun has rules for different types of materials, you can make weapons out of stone or other inferior materials for example. Genuine steel swords were quite hard to come by.

 

[James Gasik]

I mean, this is not what the rules for Selling Treasure say on p 144 of the PHB, nor what the Guild Merchant variant background says on p 133. Perhaps you need to discuss further with your DM about these more restrictive house rules?

And, if your PC does become the shopkeeper, I would hope the DM lets you (try to) sell items for whatever value you see fit. Of course, this comes at the expense of less adventuring time (until you hire employees, I suppose) and just because you open a shop does not mean the NPCs are automatically going to flock there to buy your wares if another shop (or more?) already exists in the area. Seems like travelling merchant might be more lucrative (again, p 133) by mostly avoiding the competition in the relatively low-danger marketplaces of cities/towns but perhaps a bit more risky depending on where the adventuring day brings you.

Hm, well hell. I wonder where I got that idea from! Mea culpa, here I was griping about nothing, lol. The "undamaged" line is interesting, as there's not a lot of ways for gear to become damaged, and the provision that monster equipment is useless is funny (given that it has no problems functioning perfectly when used against you, lol), but apparently this is karma for me going off on a tangent, lol.

 

[Red Castle]

Frankly, I’ve always seen these rules about economic as suggestions, not rules to adhere to. It’s the kind of thing that a DM can alter as he wish since it’s mostly part of the world building. If he can create the geography, sociology and politics, I don’t see why he could not create the economic part of his world.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Frankly, I’ve always seen these rules about economic as suggestions, not rules to adhere to. It’s the kind of thing that a DM can alter as he wish since it’s mostly part of the world building. If he can create the geography, sociology and politics, I don’t see why he could not create the economic part of his world.

They're purely gamist 'keep the GM in control of the treasure ' rules meant to reinforce GM control. By gosh we can't have the players figuring out how to enrich the characters without the GM being able to put a thumb on that!

 

[James Gasik]

They're purely gamist 'keep the GM in control of the treasure ' rules meant to reinforce GM control. By gosh we can't have the players figuring out how to enrich the characters without the GM being able to put a thumb on that!

It depends on what they can do with that money; save for 2e and 5e, you could turn money directly into power for characters!