D&D 5E (2014) Companion thread to Survivor:Proficiencies

[The Glen]

Give us things we can personify like nations or people. Then it gets personal. People care more about Stefan Karameikos or Battledale than carpenter's tools or a glaive

 

[bedir than]

Give us things we can personify like nations or people. Then it gets personal. People care more about Stefan Karameikos or Battledale than carpenter's tools or a glaive

What do you have against the Glaive!?!?!?!

 

[The Glen]

Nowhere near as a cool as the bohemian ear spoon

 

[JoeyD473]

I know right? History is one of the most often-used checks at my table. We use it for all sorts of things: remembering stuff you learned in school, recognizing someone you met years ago (or last weekend), recalling something that someone said at the tavern last night, researching ancient lore, learning the backstory of that fancy wand you just found...

Ah well. This is a Survivor thread, not a "best in show" contest. The point is to get us talking about these skills, so I guess we're doing it right?

My players almost never use history. Admittedly my players rarely use skills or tools that can't be used in combat, exception of social skills and thieves tools

 

[Tonguez]

I know right? History is one of the most often-used checks at my table. We use it for all sorts of things: remembering stuff you learned in school, researching ancient lore, learning the backstory of that fancy wand you just found...

Ah well. This is a Survivor thread, not a "best in show" contest. The point is to get us talking about these skills, so I guess we're doing it right?

see I wouldnt let History be used for recognizing someone you met years ago (or last weekend) or recalling something that someone said at the tavern last night, those are both social skills which I’d treat as an unmodified Cha check

learning the backstory of that fancy wand you just found, I’d require a Archeology or Arcana lore roll to recognise it before any attempt and its history was considered

 

[EzekielRaiden]

see I wouldnt let History be used for recognizing someone you met years ago (or last weekend) or recalling something that someone said at the tavern last night, those are both social skills which I’d treat as an unmodified Cha check

learning the backstory of that fancy wand you just found, I’d require a Archeology or Arcana lore roll to recognise it before any attempt and its history was considered

Properly speaking, memory is meant to be an Intelligence check, but I can see an argument for Charisma.

Archaeology is just a specific branch of History in D&D skills terms.

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So, since it keeps getting upvoted: Can someone explain to me why "Thieves' Tools" proficiency is, in any way, better than "Thievery" as an actual skill? I've seen arguments about it "democratizing" thievery and I genuinely do not understand how making it a tool prof does that, nor why doing that is even valuable when we have, y'know, backgrounds.

 

[CleverNickName]

So, since it keeps getting upvoted: Can someone explain to me why "Thieves' Tools" proficiency is, in any way, better than "Thievery" as an actual skill? I've seen arguments about it "democratizing" thievery and I genuinely do not understand how making it a tool prof does that, nor why doing that is even valuable when we have, y'know, backgrounds.

Seriously. For all of the complaints about spellcasters with the Find Traps spell somehow stealing the rogue's thunder, why does "now anybody can pick locks" get a pass?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Seriously. For all of the complaints about spellcasters with the Find Traps spell somehow stealing the rogue's thunder, why does "now anybody can pick locks" get a pass?

I mean, I don't see anything wrong with that per se. Backgrounds have been around since 4e and could let anyone learn Thievery. With 5e's official options (e.g. Urchin giving both Sleight of Hand and Thieves' Tools) and the option of a custom background, you can get basically whatever you want on any character, so whether it's a skill or a tool makes no real difference.

That's why I said I don't see the value, because "anyone can be a thief" is true either way. Thieves' tools existing makes no impact either way, and forces rules to bend over backwards to make special exceptions for them when otherwise it would only apply to skills (e.g. Expertise from Rogue 1.)

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Apologies for the double post, but...well.

I never expected a tie between Brewer's and Calligrapher's, with Survival of all things as an extremely close third. I had thought Survival was generally disliked as a skill.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

OK, so Vehicles Water needs to go out before Carpenter's Tools, which needs to go out before Performance.

And I cannot believe Performance is so low considering everything else still on the list.

Like, how many of you are using/have players using Proficiency: Painter's Supplies?

Cheers

Moving this here since...that's what this thread is for.

I really love a handful of Artisan Tool options. Painter's Supplies is low on that list for me, but it is still on that list. Something loosely like:

Calligraphy Supplies*
Smith's Tools
Carpenter's Tools
Brewer's Supplies
Cook's Utensils
Jeweler's Tools
Painter's Supplies
Weaver's Tools

None of them is ever likely to be directly useful per se. But each of them has a narrow area of expertise that can be really interesting, and can allow for special investigation, subterfuge, or other meaningful story beats that are cool, even if they only come up rarely. E.g., the Jeweler's Tools could be super useful in a game involving a lot of high-society, hobnobbing-with-nobility stuff, because jewelry matters a lot to nobles. Weaver? Tons of roleplay opportunities for making, repairing, modifying, or identifying clothing stuff. Painter's Supplies proficiency mean you should be a reasonably good artist, which can be a really useful thing in a world where there isn't such a thing as photography. Carpenter's Tools is great for finding secret compartments, constructing barricades, "sapper" work, etc. Brewer's Supplies means you should be a reasonable expert on zymology (or at least folk zymology), possibly a sommelier, etc., and some amount of knowledge of cuisine (not necessarily how to cook it, but how to use it.)

Again, none of these are particularly powerful. But they give characters depth, and add the potential for hooks the DM can make use of.

There isn't a lot in 5e I would be interested in pulling into my ideal trans-edition game, but something at least inspired by Artisan Tools would definitely be on my mind.

*Part of my love of this one is a personal thing. My mother is a talented hobbyist calligrapher, and taught me a little bit of what she'd learned in her classes. But more importantly, in the implicitly pre-printing-press world of a standard (meaning: schizotech) pseudo-medieval faux-Europe fantasy setting, illuminated manuscripts are a huge deal. Someone with this proficiency would be a highly desirable commodity in any place that values books--which should be most towns, cities, religious institutions, and noble estates. Plus, although cartographer's tools are what you need for making maps, calligraphy proficiency is equally valid for deciphering maps. So it has a few practical adventuring uses in addition to the fluff-heavy ones.