D&D 5E Companion thread to Survivor:Proficiencies
- Thread starter Tonguez
- Start date
bedir than
Hero
What do you have against the Glaive!?!?!?!
My players almost never use history. Admittedly my players rarely use skills or tools that can't be used in combat, exception of social skills and thieves tools
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
see I wouldnt let History be used for recognizing someone you met years ago (or last weekend) or recalling something that someone said at the tavern last night, those are both social skills which I’d treat as an unmodified Cha check
learning the backstory of that fancy wand you just found, I’d require a Archeology or Arcana lore roll to recognise it before any attempt and its history was considered
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Properly speaking, memory is meant to be an Intelligence check, but I can see an argument for Charisma.
Archaeology is just a specific branch of History in D&D skills terms.
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So, since it keeps getting upvoted: Can someone explain to me why "Thieves' Tools" proficiency is, in any way, better than "Thievery" as an actual skill? I've seen arguments about it "democratizing" thievery and I genuinely do not understand how making it a tool prof does that, nor why doing that is even valuable when we have, y'know, backgrounds.
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
Seriously. For all of the complaints about spellcasters with the Find Traps spell somehow stealing the rogue's thunder, why does "now anybody can pick locks" get a pass?
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
I mean, I don't see anything wrong with that per se. Backgrounds have been around since 4e and could let anyone learn Thievery. With 5e's official options (e.g. Urchin giving both Sleight of Hand and Thieves' Tools) and the option of a custom background, you can get basically whatever you want on any character, so whether it's a skill or a tool makes no real difference.
That's why I said I don't see the value, because "anyone can be a thief" is true either way. Thieves' tools existing makes no impact either way, and forces rules to bend over backwards to make special exceptions for them when otherwise it would only apply to skills (e.g. Expertise from Rogue 1.)
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Apologies for the double post, but...well.
I never expected a tie between Brewer's and Calligrapher's, with Survival of all things as an extremely close third. I had thought Survival was generally disliked as a skill.
I never expected a tie between Brewer's and Calligrapher's, with Survival of all things as an extremely close third. I had thought Survival was generally disliked as a skill.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Moving this here since...that's what this thread is for.
I really love a handful of Artisan Tool options. Painter's Supplies is low on that list for me, but it is still on that list. Something loosely like:
Calligraphy Supplies*
Smith's Tools
Carpenter's Tools
Brewer's Supplies
Cook's Utensils
Jeweler's Tools
Painter's Supplies
Weaver's Tools
None of them is ever likely to be directly useful per se. But each of them has a narrow area of expertise that can be really interesting, and can allow for special investigation, subterfuge, or other meaningful story beats that are cool, even if they only come up rarely. E.g., the Jeweler's Tools could be super useful in a game involving a lot of high-society, hobnobbing-with-nobility stuff, because jewelry matters a lot to nobles. Weaver? Tons of roleplay opportunities for making, repairing, modifying, or identifying clothing stuff. Painter's Supplies proficiency mean you should be a reasonably good artist, which can be a really useful thing in a world where there isn't such a thing as photography. Carpenter's Tools is great for finding secret compartments, constructing barricades, "sapper" work, etc. Brewer's Supplies means you should be a reasonable expert on zymology (or at least folk zymology), possibly a sommelier, etc., and some amount of knowledge of cuisine (not necessarily how to cook it, but how to use it.)
Again, none of these are particularly powerful. But they give characters depth, and add the potential for hooks the DM can make use of.
There isn't a lot in 5e I would be interested in pulling into my ideal trans-edition game, but something at least inspired by Artisan Tools would definitely be on my mind.
*Part of my love of this one is a personal thing. My mother is a talented hobbyist calligrapher, and taught me a little bit of what she'd learned in her classes. But more importantly, in the implicitly pre-printing-press world of a standard (meaning: schizotech) pseudo-medieval faux-Europe fantasy setting, illuminated manuscripts are a huge deal. Someone with this proficiency would be a highly desirable commodity in any place that values books--which should be most towns, cities, religious institutions, and noble estates. Plus, although cartographer's tools are what you need for making maps, calligraphy proficiency is equally valid for deciphering maps. So it has a few practical adventuring uses in addition to the fluff-heavy ones.
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see
Pedantic Grognard
By a immediate and direct reading of the actual descriptions.
Calligrapher's supplies:
"Components. Calligrapher's supplies include ink, a dozen sheets of parchment, and three quills.” -- Xanthar's Guide to Everything, p.79.
Forgery Kit:
"This small box contains a variety of papers and parchments, pens and inks, seals and sealing wax, gold and silver leaf, and other supplies necessary to create convincing forgeries of physical documents." -- PHB, p.154.
"Components. A forgery kit includes several different types of ink, a variety of parchments and papers, several quills, seals and sealing wax, gold and silver leaf, and small tools to to sculpt melted wax to mimic a seal." -- Xanthar's Guide to Everything, p.81.
So, the calligrapher's supplies has ink -- which the forger's kit has. It has parchment -- which the forger's kit has. It has three quill pens -- which the forger's kit has. And then the forger's kit has a bunch of other things. The calligrapher's supplies are, as a tool, a proper subset of the forgery kit.
Further, as a simple logical matter, if a forger couldn't duplicate everything a calligrapher can do with calligrapher's supplies, then the forger couldn't actually forge the documents made by the calligrapher. So, it's clear that a calligrapher's core skills (until we get into the "special use" zone in Xanthar's descriptions) are a subset of a forger's skills.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
RealAlHazred
Frumious Flumph
In my games, it's the "Scribe's Kit," and is used for both Forgery and Calligraphy.
I missed this since my daughter was born on the 31st, and on the 29th I was still being a cheerleader for my wife. But who doesn't like the Glaive? It's an excellent ranged weapon, and I was jazzed to learn in History class that there used to be squads of troops using these!
RealAlHazred
Frumious Flumph
I am a little shocked to still see Survival on there. Really, in most games I run it's "Pick Campsite," and that's it.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
I suppose it depends on how much time you spend exploring outside, I use survival for finding tracks, hunting & foraging, locating drinkable water, orientation and finding an easier path, pushing through thick undergrowth while avoiding snakes and spiders, assessing the weather and a whole lot of other stuff. But I like to use a lot of wilderness and ‘natural dungeons’
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CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
Oh man, we use Survival for all sorts of things:
- Following tracks
- Foraging for food
- Identifying natural hazards (quicksand, unstable slopes, etc.)
- Finding shelter (or building a makeshift shelter)
- Building a raft
- Building a campfire
- Harvesting meat, hides, etc. from animals
- Fishing/hunting
- Avoiding random encounters
RealAlHazred
Frumious Flumph
See, my group hires local specialists for most of that work, who form the "Experts" (except the group in-chat refers to them as the "Expendables" due to their high mortality rate). The PCs generally only focus on the fighting stuff. Not my preference, but it's what the players want to do.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Holy $#!+.
This is exactly why I decided these threads weren't for me. In just one single day, the only one I really properly liked goes from "doing quite well" to "completely destroyed." Not even winning! It was second-place!
Yeah, I just...I really hate this format.
This is exactly why I decided these threads weren't for me. In just one single day, the only one I really properly liked goes from "doing quite well" to "completely destroyed." Not even winning! It was second-place!
Yeah, I just...I really hate this format.
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
So I did it.
As promised, I took the Top Five "surviving" options and made a playable character out of them. I didn't do the full character sheet, but there's enough bits and pieces here to work with if someone decided to stat it up.
www.enworld.org
Note that I didn't say "winning" options, because it's pretty clear that y'all are the reason I can't have nice things.
As promised, I took the Top Five "surviving" options and made a playable character out of them. I didn't do the full character sheet, but there's enough bits and pieces here to work with if someone decided to stat it up.
D&D 5E - 5E Survivor - Proficiencies
Alchemist's Supplies 9 Cartographer's Tools 7 Cook’s Utensils 8 - 2 = 6 Disguise Kit 9 Herbalism Kit 11 Survival 2+1=3
www.enworld.org
Note that I didn't say "winning" options, because it's pretty clear that y'all are the reason I can't have nice things.
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