D&D General Kobold Press Going Down a Dark Road

[Remathilis]

Getting all the way back to the OP, to me it is pretty obvious what KP is doing: they are insinuating that there is some sort of threat to the 5e that you love, and that they will be the guardians of the real 5e tradition, and particularly of print media for it.

On reflecting further, this is quite an interesting strategy in that it is a sort of an appeal to grognard-types: these new ways are a problem, and we will champion your values. It's an inherently reactionary, conservative strategy. What I find fascinating is that many grognards have often been critical of 5e, yet now 5e becomes the thing that must be preserved. Are we witnessing the birth of the 5e grognard cohort? In which case: welcome! You can collect a button at the door, and refreshments are on the right.

Kobold Press is pulling a Paizo circa 2009; "we are the heir apparent to the edition you love." The problem is it's not 2009 and there are two major differences:

1. Paizo had nearly the complete 3.5 core game in its SRD. KP has a far smaller slice of "official" stuff to work with and has to invent a lot more to augment it.
2. WotC isn't making an edition that is as divergent in its changes as 4e was. The gap of changes between 5e and 1D is so far much smaller than it was between 3e an 4e.

So the Paizo trick of "take the SRD, fix some mechanical issues and flavor with your house seasoning" isn't going to work the same way. Their system, by necessity and by choice, is as far removed from 5e as OneD&D will be. Their biggest draws will be for people who like KP's specific expression of a mechanic (luck vs inspiration, talents vs feats) or people who hold a grudge against WotC but still want to upgrade from 5e.

 

[Marc Radle]

To get back on the subject of the OP, I have seen @Marc Radle on here a couple times and I applaud him for wading into these dangerous waters. Has there been any movement by KP to clarify / modify their statement?

Appreciate the kind words!
There is absolutely discussion and activity on this happening behind the scenes - more to come soon I suspect!

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Kobold Press is pulling a Paizo circa 2009; "we are the heir apparent to the edition you love." The problem is it's not 2009 and there are two major differences:

1. Paizo had nearly the complete 3.5 core game in its SRD. KP has a far smaller slice of "official" stuff to work with and has to invent a lot more to augment it.
2. WotC isn't making an edition that is as divergent in its changes as 4e was. The gap of changes between 5e and 1D is so far much smaller than it was between 3e an 4e.

So the Paizo trick of "take the SRD, fix some mechanical issues and flavor with your house seasoning" isn't going to work the same way. Their system, by necessity and by choice, is as far removed from 5e as OneD&D will be. Their biggest draws will be for people who like KP's specific expression of a mechanic (luck vs inspiration, talents vs feats) or people who hold a grudge against WotC but still want to upgrade from 5e.

I think that they have a bigger hurdle in that Paizo had an already devoted following subscribing to their AP series. These people were almost certainly going to go with what ever Paizo did.

 

[Hussar]

By that argument, any claim that something is low quality is inherently insulting, and the more popular that something is, the more insulting the claim. That just seems like a way to quash discussion you don't like.

No.

Claiming something is low quality is pretty much just a smokescreen for “something I don’t like “. Because while I see all these claims of “low quality”, they are almost often completely unsupported.

Claiming WotC DnD is low quality is ludicrous. WotC sets the standard for everyone else. That’s just a fact. Art, production values, editing, and yes mechanics as well.

People constantly conflate their personal tastes with quality.

 

[Laurefindel]

nothing to see here. Bad attempt at a bad joke. Sorry.

Comedy is hard…

 

[Remathilis]

I think that they have a bigger hurdle in that Paizo had an already devoted following subscribing to their AP series. These people were almost certainly going to go with what ever Paizo did.

Paizo was the perfect company to do what they did. I don't think the stars are in the same place for KP. I don't think this will be a failure, but I don't see it as a game changer.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No.

Claiming something is low quality is pretty much just a smokescreen for “something I don’t like “. Because while I see all these claims of “low quality”, they are almost often completely unsupported.

Claiming WotC DnD is low quality is ludicrous. WotC sets the standard for everyone else. That’s just a fact. Art, production values, editing, and yes mechanics as well.

People constantly conflate their personal tastes with quality.

So nobody beats WotC in terms of art, production value, editing, AND mechanics? Seriously? That's your claim? RPGs can and do certainly compare themselves to their work (they kinda have to), but to claim them as the top end...the two of us are very alien to each other.

 

[Parmandur]

Paizo was the perfect company to do what they did. I don't think the stars are in the same place for KP. I don't think this will be a failure, but I don't see it as a game changer.

I think this is accurate, even though Black Flag is actually interesting to me personally, unlike Pathfinder was at the time (I bounced off of 4E, but Pathfinder seemed to be just doubling down on what was already frustrating me in 3.x, while KP current style fits me fine).

 

[teitan]

OK, first I want to apologize. I believe I misunderstood something along the way. I also did not intend to be rude and apologize for that. To be clear, when I said: "...this is stupid..." I was referring to myself. As in, i was being stupid for exploring a tangent I didn't want to. Not sure what you interpreted as rude, but that is what jumped to my mind.

Also, I thought the discussion of fluff, crunch, and meta-plot was a tangent not relevant to the discussion on feats. I didn't realize you were providing "receipts" for that discussion. I am sorry I misunderstood.

Regarding Silver Munches, no I was/am unaware about that as I skipped 3e/3.5e, we continued with our homebrew 1e/BECMI hybrid.

I hope that clarified things a bit and again I apologizing for any rude tone, that was not my intent.

Thank you.

 

[Maxperson]

Not sure about the vital bit. Grognards to me have played the game a long time and do bring people into the game, but that game is by now OSR, not 5e, and it has not happened with 5e first either, they already did move away with 4e or even 3e. Some hung in there, some maybe came back for 5e, but it is not the game for them, which is why all they do is complain about how the game goes in the wrong direction and relive the good old days. That does not sound like a person that brings people into 5e, or not many at least. They might bring people into TTRPGs, but that is not the same thing.

With the huge growth in number of players and visibility of D&D, they also become a lot less important as a funnel into the game. I am sure Matt Mercer or Stranger Things got more people into 5e than all the grognards combined.

It's the medium and grog nards that tend to have most of the disposable income to actually pay for D&D products. You need to target them at LEAST as much as the new nards.