D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[SteveC]

There are really two discussions going on here: one is an issue of mechanics and the best way to present "half" groups. There's a lot of interesting ideas already being discussed here, from "take +2 to an attribute, darkvision, and call it what you want," to using Pathfinder's highly developed approach. That's where I think we have a really interesting discussion.

The other side is a moral argument that people are alluding to, but no one seems to be really making. I admit that I have some folks on mute so I may have missed their posts, but if there's a moral argument ... it seems to be presented as "some people think this..." instead of "I believe this is wrong because of X."

In one case, I think we have a very useful thing to look at in mechanical terms. There's a lot of ways to make the game better and open up the design space for ... whatever we're calling races/species/ancestries/kins and so forth. In the other case we have a very small group taking issue with the terms, and it's so small that it doesn't even seem to be represented in the thread.

I'll just say that I think a playtest should be mechanical, not a discussion of ethics. We are well equipped to discuss rules, but much less so to discuss morals, ethics, or politics.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

season 3 is good.
season 1&2, horrible.

I like season 1 so far.

 

[Bedrockgames]

There are really two discussions going on here: one is an issue of mechanics and the best way to present "half" groups. There's a lot of interesting ideas already being discussed here, from "take +2 to an attribute, darkvision, and call it what you want," to using Pathfinder's highly developed approach. That's where I think we have a really interesting discussion.

The other side is a moral argument that people are alluding to, but no one seems to be really making. I admit that I have some folks on mute so I may have missed their posts, but if there's a moral argument ... it seems to be presented as "some people think this..." instead of "I believe this is wrong because of X."

In one case, I think we have a very useful thing to look at in mechanical terms. There's a lot of ways to make the game better and open up the design space for ... whatever we're calling races/species/ancestries/kins and so forth. In the other case we have a very small group taking issue with the terms, and it's so small that it doesn't even seem to be represented in the thread.

I'll just say that I think a playtest should be mechanical, not a discussion of ethics. We are well equipped to discuss rules, but much less so to discuss morals, ethics, or politics.

if we are just going by mechanics I think the classic approach is the most streamlined and simple. I would add giving the GM the ability to make rulings for unique characters may be good but the old method allows for solid choices, faster character creation, distinct characters with clearer space in the game got them, and is easier to manage in terms of balance because these are choices that have been tested over time (it is a lot easier to look where the half orc is in its last iteration and make tweaks than it is to invent that part of the game again while cloth

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I think the easiest option for mixed species, is a feat that can be picked at 1st level. Then they only need 1 thing designed for each species they come up with. And you can get things like if your character is an Elf-Orc-Human descendant.

Still they'd have to pick 1 species at creation, and pick 1 feat to represent the other and wait for a later level to pick another, unless they pick Human as the base species and have Elven blood and Orcish blood as their 2 starting feats.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There are really two discussions going on here: one is an issue of mechanics and the best way to present "half" groups. There's a lot of interesting ideas already being discussed here, from "take +2 to an attribute, darkvision, and call it what you want," to using Pathfinder's highly developed approach. That's where I think we have a really interesting discussion.

The other side is a moral argument that people are alluding to, but no one seems to be really making. I admit that I have some folks on mute so I may have missed their posts, but if there's a moral argument ... it seems to be presented as "some people think this..." instead of "I believe this is wrong because of X."

In one case, I think we have a very useful thing to look at in mechanical terms. There's a lot of ways to make the game better and open up the design space for ... whatever we're calling races/species/ancestries/kins and so forth. In the other case we have a very small group taking issue with the terms, and it's so small that it doesn't even seem to be represented in the thread.

I'll just say that I think a playtest should be mechanical, not a discussion of ethics. We are well equipped to discuss rules, but much less so to discuss morals, ethics, or politics.

It is unfortunately no longer possible to separate those things in public discussions.

 

[Bawylie]

To be honest, Players Options Skills and Powers was an idea ahead of its time and I would love to see Character points and the ability to customize your species and class abilities be part of the main game. But I suspect that is more than most people would want. It would fix most problems people have with fixed abilities of classes and such.

It seems like it would be easy enough to have pre-assembled packages alongside build-a-bear.

 

[SteveC]

It is unfortunately no longer possible to separate those things in public discussions.

Sadly, I think you're increasingly right. What I do in these cases is to just use the 'ignore' function. I know that people use it on me to be sure.

I wish it wasn't this way, but I've been on the Interwebz for a long time, and when I was younger (including, unfortunately the early days on this very site) I was an Internet Warrior. I am not proud of that so I try to not engage in it any more. The trouble is when people post really interesting gaming content, but also want a fight on other issues, and I'll eventually lose out on some interesting content rather than get into fights where the mods need to come in to bust things up.

I wish this was not the case. I read a lot of other message boards and am active in other parts of social media, but I find I just read and listen more often than participating these days. It keeps me far less angry.

 

[JohnSnow]

I don't know if this has been said, but WotC's decision regarding the handling of Half-Elves (at least) is actually much closer to how they were portrayed by Tolkien. What do I mean?

In Middle-Earth, the Half-Elven are given the choice of which side of their ancestry to embrace. They could choose to be Human, and thus "Suffer the Doom of Men" (death), or they could remain Elves, and basically live forever until they eventually leave Middle-Earth at the end of the Third Age. The most recent "Half-Elves" in Tolkien who are given this choice are Arwen and her brothers, Elladan and Elrohir. The latter chose to be of Elf-kind, while Arwen chose the Doom of Men to be with Aragorn (who is also of "Elf-heritage").

I'm sure everyone here knows this, but it bears repeating that Elrond's brother Elros is/was Aragorn (Elessar)'s great(x)-grandfather. So Middle-Earth basically has two distinct "types" of Half-Elves - people who are basically Elves (like Elrond and his children), and Dúnedain (like Aragorn and his kin). And in Middle-Earth, while the "Half-Elven" are the only ones called that, they are really just "Elves with the option to die." Meanwhile, the Dúnedain are basically just Humans - although they live a long time, and generally (despite Aragorn's typical portrayal in art and film) can't grow facial hair.

So WotC's current direction on mixed-heritage characters is not 100% without precedent.

 

[Remathilis]

An excerpt from Tal'dorei Revisited, p163

Mixed Ancestry
Even the oldest records of the Cobalt Soul are unclear as to whether the ancestries of elves, dwarves, orcs, and goliaths routinely mixed before the arrival of humankind on Tal'Dorei's shores. But it's easy to assume that explorers and ambassadors would inevitably find love or companionship among the folk of unfamiliar lands—and it is well known that the arrival of humans changed Tal'Dorei forever.

From the earliest days of human exploration on the continent, love and passion began to blossom between all of Tal'Dorei's people. The children that spring from the unions of folk of different heritage bear the traits of each of their parents, so that a human child might gain patches of scales and reptilian eyes from a dragonblood parent, or an orc and a dwarf might raise a child of squat, stout stature and olive-green skin, and bearing wisps of a coppery beard even as an infant.

In the modern age, love unites all folk. People of mixed ancestry can be found all across Tal'Dorei, though they are most common in the realm's cosmopolitan cities. Some ancestries are biologically improbable (such as a goliath and a gnome having a child), but sufficient application of magic makes even those unions possible. However, money can be a limiting factor in such things, as having a skilled mage on hand during conception and childbirth is an expensive process.

Non-humanoid creatures with the magical ability to assume humanoid size and form, such as dragons, can also sire or give birth to mixed-ancestry children.

Mixed Ancestry Statistics
Only certain combinations of ancestries, such as half-elves and half-orcs, already have racial traits described in the fifth edition core rules. You can use these racial traits as is, or create your own mixed ancestry from any two races by choosing one or two racial traits from one parent's race and exchanging them for the same number of traits from another parent's race.

When you build a character of mixed ancestry, keep in mind that some racial traits are more mechanically powerful than others, while some are largely flavorful or narrative focused. As such, focus on swapping a narrative trait for another narrative trait, or a combat-focused trait for another combat-focused trait. Additionally, you must have your Game Master's permission to use your replacement traits. As with any house rule, you and your Game Master might want to revisit your unique combination of traits later in the campaign if they feel overpowered or underpowered.

 

[Micah Sweet]

An excerpt from Tal'dorei Revisited, p163

Mixed Ancestry
Even the oldest records of the Cobalt Soul are unclear as to whether the ancestries of elves, dwarves, orcs, and goliaths routinely mixed before the arrival of humankind on Tal'Dorei's shores. But it's easy to assume that explorers and ambassadors would inevitably find love or companionship among the folk of unfamiliar lands—and it is well known that the arrival of humans changed Tal'Dorei forever.

From the earliest days of human exploration on the continent, love and passion began to blossom between all of Tal'Dorei's people. The children that spring from the unions of folk of different heritage bear the traits of each of their parents, so that a human child might gain patches of scales and reptilian eyes from a dragonblood parent, or an orc and a dwarf might raise a child of squat, stout stature and olive-green skin, and bearing wisps of a coppery beard even as an infant.

In the modern age, love unites all folk. People of mixed ancestry can be found all across Tal'Dorei, though they are most common in the realm's cosmopolitan cities. Some ancestries are biologically improbable (such as a goliath and a gnome having a child), but sufficient application of magic makes even those unions possible. However, money can be a limiting factor in such things, as having a skilled mage on hand during conception and childbirth is an expensive process.

Non-humanoid creatures with the magical ability to assume humanoid size and form, such as dragons, can also sire or give birth to mixed-ancestry children.

Mixed Ancestry Statistics
Only certain combinations of ancestries, such as half-elves and half-orcs, already have racial traits described in the fifth edition core rules. You can use these racial traits as is, or create your own mixed ancestry from any two races by choosing one or two racial traits from one parent's race and exchanging them for the same number of traits from another parent's race.

When you build a character of mixed ancestry, keep in mind that some racial traits are more mechanically powerful than others, while some are largely flavorful or narrative focused. As such, focus on swapping a narrative trait for another narrative trait, or a combat-focused trait for another combat-focused trait. Additionally, you must have your Game Master's permission to use your replacement traits. As with any house rule, you and your Game Master might want to revisit your unique combination of traits later in the campaign if they feel overpowered or underpowered.

That is essentially a messy version of the Level Up rules.