Picard Season 3

[trappedslider]

Seriously what’s up with every at show being filmed at half light?

I blame dark mode and people who ONLY use it.

 

[Mort]

so, basically in your opinioned shared by others there's no place in star trek for a shadowy organization that honestly answers to no one, and does what it does in it's own twisted vision of the greater good. We just accept that in the future of star trek that the federation utopia is easy to keep (at least in the core,DS9 proved else where it wasn't as pretty) without people taking some sort of measures to make sure it stays that way?

I'm sorry but i have trouble buying into that. Utopia Justifies The Means, I did what i had to do ,The Unfettered all tropes that apply to Star trek and Section 31.

I think it's totally plausible for an organization like the federation to have it's own off the official books group that does the dirty deeds so that others can sleep soundly.

Except that cheapens the whole humans actually HAVE figured some things out. That society actually HAS advanced socially where such morally reprehensible behavior is unnecessary. If that's only skin deep, it doesn't actually mean nearly as much. That for utopia to exist it MUST play dirty? I think Star Trek works better if it actually HAS moved passed this, not only pretends too. And no, that doesn't mean there are no hard choices, it just means humanity actually knows/and tends to make the right ones.

Strange New Worlds has a nice episode related to this. The Enterprise meets a planet of beings seemingly even MORE utopian than the federation. Everything seems awesome. One tiny hitch

Spoiler

for the civilization's tech to keep running and the planet to keep going... It requires occasional child sacrifice...

. Still a utopia?

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, I have to agree here. The idea that the only way we can have a utopian society (or even one that aspires to utopia) is if there's some group in the background doing all the dirty work to keep the pretense of a utopia alive is a rather horrific interpretation. If the Federation's raison d'être is to be actually true, then that means you actually have to sacrifice in order to keep that true.

People doing the hard work in the shadows so that the sheep can be safe is very much NOT what Star Trek is about.

It's actually a bit funny. In the various series, TOS, TNG and DS9 especially, any time someone strays from Federation ideals, they are not only shown to be the villain, but, almost entirely wrong. They aren't justified - they are the cause of the problems. Whether it's Patterns of Force or various other episodes - the message was always pretty clear. Following the principles of the Federation is a good thing and leads to good outcomes.

Now, it seems that such a notion isn't dramatic enough. We need to have these shadow groups - the Time Authority, Section 31 - who are working in the shadow to keep the trains running on time despite and often in direct contravention of the principles of the Federation.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, I have to agree here. The idea that the only way we can have a utopian society (or even one that aspires to utopia) is if there's some group in the background doing all the dirty work to keep the pretense of a utopia alive is a rather horrific interpretation. If the Federation's raison d'être is to be actually true, then that means you actually have to sacrifice in order to keep that true.

People doing the hard work in the shadows so that the sheep can be safe is very much NOT what Star Trek is about.

It's actually a bit funny. In the various series, TOS, TNG and DS9 especially, any time someone strays from Federation ideals, they are not only shown to be the villain, but, almost entirely wrong. They aren't justified - they are the cause of the problems. Whether it's Patterns of Force or various other episodes - the message was always pretty clear. Following the principles of the Federation is a good thing and leads to good outcomes.

Now, it seems that such a notion isn't dramatic enough. We need to have these shadow groups - the Time Authority, Section 31 - who are working in the shadow to keep the trains running on time despite and often in direct contravention of the principles of the Federation.

It's after TOS nothing lasts forever.

And if the Federation ideals no longer work? Or 31 are completely rogue/corrupted etc.

 

[Hussar]

It's after TOS nothing lasts forever.

And if the Federation ideals no longer work? Or 31 are completely rogue/corrupted etc.

Actually, no it isn't. After all, the S31 stuff was introduced in Enterprise. So, basically, they're saying that the Federation utopia never existed. It was always a sham.

I really don't like that interpretation of Star Trek.

 

[Zardnaar]

Actually, no it isn't. After all, the S31 stuff was introduced in Enterprise. So, basically, they're saying that the Federation utopia never existed. It was always a sham.

I really don't like that interpretation of Star Trek.

I'm more worried about the execution. If Treks still fun to watch cool if it's crap meh.

 

[glass]

Or 31 are completely rogue/corrupted etc.

They have never been otherwise.

Actually, no it isn't. After all, the S31 stuff was introduced in Enterprise. So, basically, they're saying that the Federation utopia never existed. It was always a sham.

They were introduced in DS9, but their first appearance in in-universe chronology was in Enterprise so your point still stands.

 

[Mort]

Accidental post

 

[Hussar]

They have never been otherwise.


They were introduced in DS9, but their first appearance in in-universe chronology was in Enterprise so your point still stands.

I realized I wasn't clear after I wrote it.

 

[AnotherGuy]

So, basically, they're saying that the Federation utopia never existed. It was always a sham.

Another instance of art imitating life