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D&D (2024) I like the new Warlock

I like that they are considering getting rid of pact magic, I was never a fan of that part of the warlock and as a half caster it will play far nicer with the multiclass rules. I'm not as keen on eldritch blast and hex being automatic spells, and I'd rather EB act like a force version of fire bolt and all the invocations that affect EB instead affect all of the warlock's cantrips. EB and hex limit warlock concepts, IMO.
Personally, I would like to see hex do more. Make cursing people a more centralized feature.

Like:
Fiendish Hex.
Your Hex deals fire damage.

Dark Ones Blessing
When the target of your hex is reduced to 0hp, gain temporary hit points...
 

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I have always been a huge Warlock Fan. I've made and played a Fire Genasi Fiend Warlock, an Earth Genasi Genie Warlock, an Orc Hexblade, a Human Celestial Warlock, a Human Great Old One Warlock, a Human Undead Patron Warlock...I've played them all. I love them. I love the flavor, I love the flexibility.

I absolutely hated how crappy they were. Every one of them wound up using Eldritch Blast refluffed as something else because doing anything else just sucked in comparison. The Genie Warlock was meant to be a Pact of the Blade, but Eldritch Blast was just better in every way without a homebrew. The Hexblade died in his second adventure because he insisted on using a Blade anyway (Shades suck, by the way). The Celestial was going to go Tome, Shellilague and use a quarterstaff with Green Flame Blade, and did, for a while...but Eldritch Blast is just better. The others just fluffed Eldritch Blast into either an infernal pistol or something like that.

Their spell selection sucked. Their number of spells sucked. Everyone else got a great selection or could do all kinds of stuff, and here I am having to grab a Tome and do Rituals if I want to pretend to be good at spellcasting.

Having only two spell slots was just crap. And at lvl 1? You only have ONE! ONE SPELL SLOT. What the heck? Well, i guess you'll cast Hex, once, and then EB the rest of the day, derp de derp. Oh, you prepped Comprehend Languages and now found a note written in a language none of the party knows? Too bad, you only had the one slot.

Seriously, I love Warlocks, they are my favorite class, they are versitile and have more flavor than all the other classes combined for me. But the old version nerfed every part of them. Their slots only go up to 5th level, they only get so many, one of the few Short Rest classes, shoehorned into Eldritch Blast...Just bad design all around.

The changes, though? They're great. They are a needed power boost. I don't think Boons need to be at first level, but whatever. More spell options, more spells in general, more Invocations, more flexibility, the ability to have a melee focused Warlock be actually decent at melee, and NOT JUST A HEXBLADE. Seriously, the Pact of the Blade should have looked like this from the get go.

So for y'all saying "you're not a real Warlock fan if you like the changes", stop the gatekeeping. Warlocks have always been an awesome but poorly designed class. Same as Sorcerers. The Flavor of Sorcerers was great, but they're basically just worse wizards. And yet I would always play a Sorcerer over a Wizard. Why? Because the Flavor was better. And I just dealt with it, because the story is more important than the mechanics, but boy did it rub me the wrong way. Both of them got a much, MUCH needed power boost in this update. At least now they can do things, instead of the Warlock just throwing EB's all day and maybe sometimes casting a spell that did something else. I wish I'd had these changes when i was trying my melee warlocks.
 

I have always been a huge Warlock Fan. I've made and played a Fire Genasi Fiend Warlock, an Earth Genasi Genie Warlock, an Orc Hexblade, a Human Celestial Warlock, a Human Great Old One Warlock, a Human Undead Patron Warlock...I've played them all. I love them. I love the flavor, I love the flexibility.

I absolutely hated how crappy they were. Every one of them wound up using Eldritch Blast refluffed as something else because doing anything else just sucked in comparison. The Genie Warlock was meant to be a Pact of the Blade, but Eldritch Blast was just better in every way without a homebrew. The Hexblade died in his second adventure because he insisted on using a Blade anyway (Shades suck, by the way). The Celestial was going to go Tome, Shellilague and use a quarterstaff with Green Flame Blade, and did, for a while...but Eldritch Blast is just better. The others just fluffed Eldritch Blast into either an infernal pistol or something like that.

Their spell selection sucked. Their number of spells sucked. Everyone else got a great selection or could do all kinds of stuff, and here I am having to grab a Tome and do Rituals if I want to pretend to be good at spellcasting.

Having only two spell slots was just crap. And at lvl 1? You only have ONE! ONE SPELL SLOT. What the heck? Well, i guess you'll cast Hex, once, and then EB the rest of the day, derp de derp. Oh, you prepped Comprehend Languages and now found a note written in a language none of the party knows? Too bad, you only had the one slot.

Seriously, I love Warlocks, they are my favorite class, they are versitile and have more flavor than all the other classes combined for me. But the old version nerfed every part of them. Their slots only go up to 5th level, they only get so many, one of the few Short Rest classes, shoehorned into Eldritch Blast...Just bad design all around.
I don't understand how you can say you loved them while in the same breath talking about how terrible their design is. Clearly, you don't like their design. You like their flavor. Maybe you like getting to make lots of build choices. But what you don't like is a caster who mainly relies on one strong cantrip, a bit of at-will utility, and a couple of leveled spells now and then. Which is what the warlock is.
The changes, though? They're great. They are a needed power boost. I don't think Boons need to be at first level, but whatever. More spell options, more spells in general, more Invocations, more flexibility, the ability to have a melee focused Warlock be actually decent at melee, and NOT JUST A HEXBLADE. Seriously, the Pact of the Blade should have looked like this from the get go.
I do agree that all of the changes are great. Except half-casting. Trading in one at-level spell per encounter for a handfull of under-leveled spells on daily recharge is not my idea of a power-boost, and it spoils the only option in the game that let us play magic users who weren't boring-ass Vanican casters.
So for y'all saying "you're not a real Warlock fan if you like the changes", stop the gatekeeping. Warlocks have always been an awesome but poorly designed class. Same as Sorcerers. The Flavor of Sorcerers was great, but they're basically just worse wizards. And yet I would always play a Sorcerer over a Wizard. Why? Because the Flavor was better. And I just dealt with it, because the story is more important than the mechanics, but boy did it rub me the wrong way. Both of them got a much, MUCH needed power boost in this update. At least now they can do things, instead of the Warlock just throwing EB's all day and maybe sometimes casting a spell that did something else. I wish I'd had these changes when i was trying my melee warlocks.
All the people making hombebrew classes based on the Warlock's structure would disagree that it's poorly designed. Moreover, it is not gatekeeping to observe that there's an apparent discrepancy between your professed love for warlocks and your professed hate for everything about how the class actually functions in play.
 

I don't understand how you can say you loved them while in the same breath talking about how terrible their design is. Clearly, you don't like their design. You like their flavor. Maybe you like getting to make lots of build choices. But what you don't like is a caster who mainly relies on one strong cantrip, a bit of at-will utility, and a couple of leveled spells now and then. Which is what the warlock is.

I do agree that all of the changes are great. Except half-casting. Trading in one at-level spell per encounter for a handfull of under-leveled spells on daily recharge is not my idea of a power-boost, and it spoils the only option in the game that let us play magic users who weren't boring-ass Vanican casters.

All the people making hombebrew classes based on the Warlock's structure would disagree that it's poorly designed. Moreover, it is not gatekeeping to observe that there's an apparent discrepancy between your professed love for warlocks and your professed hate for everything about how the class actually functions in play.
Anytime you say "You're not a fan of x if you disagree with me", then you're gatekeeping.

I don't understand why people think the Vanican casting is boring but pact magic isn't. Sure it's structured differently, but it's just a means of being able to determine how many spells you can cast. That's it. There's nothing inherently boring or interesting about it. Oh, it's different from everyone else! Yay! It still sucks. Having two spell slots sucks. Having almost no spell selection sucks. The Spells became this side thing that you had really only for utility and one big boom spell for a grenade, and then this class that has so much room for flexibility and awesomeness becomes...a sniper.

And I can very easily love something while pointing out all of its flaws. LIke the Star Wars Prequels. I loved them. Grew up with them. I can point to so many awesome, emotional moments that were just great. Great writing, great cinematography, great characters, great story. But I can also point out Jar Jar Binks, the dialogue between Padme and Anakin, the CGI, the Plot Holes, and all the other problems it has. You CAN be a fan while at the same time understading the object of your fandom is deeply flawed.

I know how the Warlock was SUPPOSED to work, because it is given abilities that suggest certain builds. Like a melee focused Warlock. The Pact of the Blade is RIGHT THERE, and is given all these Invocations to make it work...but it never does. Eldritch Blast with Two Invocations is better at every level. For Melee Warlocks to work, that aren't Hexblades, you need either a Feat for Armor, or the Mage Armor Invocation, plus Improved Pact Weapon, plus Thirsting Blade, plus Lifedrinker, and Improved Pact Weapon was an add on in Tasha's. So that's up to four Invocations and a Boon...and Eldritch Blast with Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast is just better. AND you can have a Familiar to give you advantage or a Tome to give lots and lots of spells. The Pact of the Blade is a Trap option. If a class has a Trap Option, then it is BAD DESIGN.

I liked the flexibility of the Invocations and the Boons. I liked the Patrons twisting the flavor. I liked Eldritch Blast and the things you could do with it. Having at will spells, something Wizards don't get till lvl 18, felt great. Mask of Many Faces or Levitate or whatever. One of my Warlocks was illiterate. He was a bard first, and I rolled a 6 for Intelligence, so he was illiterate. Later, he died, and the DM had a demon come to him offering a deal, so he had to multiclass to a Warlock and he'd be able to keep living. I said yes, and he became a warlock.

At lvl 2, he took Eyes of the Rune Keeper, because he was illiterate and that was always a sore spot for him. That Invocation was the Demon getting his hooks DEEP. From then on, every Invocation had to do with the eyees. Devil's Sight, Eldritch Sight, and later he'd have gotten Ghostly Gaze and Witch Sight if I'd ever gotten that far. It's not mechanically smart, but it was this character, and it fit so well.

But that's all Invocations. I basically ignored his spells. I just used the spells as a back up utility or a grenade. My Fire Genasi Fiend Warlock was basically Ghost Rider, with an infernal revolver (Eldritch Blast) that would transform into a grenade launcher when he cast Wall of Fire or Fireball.

I want to see how the Warlock plays as a Half Caster. Half Casters don't rely on spells. They rely on their other abilities, but they have spells as back ups, like the Warlock does. Paladin pretty much save them for Smites, Rangers oft forget they have them. Plus, it makes Shield a viable warlock spell. That's a good thing! Particularly for those Warlocks who are melee focused. Using Shield with Pact Magic was a complete waste. Not because it wasn't useful, but because it eats spell slots so quickly. Two rounds and your slots are gone. Yeah, you protected yourself from getting hit twice, but now you can't shoot your grenade. Or pretty much anything else.

Let's playtest these new ones before we just decide "Oh, it's not different anymore, my life is over! How will I ever go on if the character I play functions like the other player's characters!"
 

Anytime you say "You're not a fan of x if you disagree with me", then you're gatekeeping.
I didn't say you're not a fan of warlocks if you disagree with me. I said it seems like you want to like warlocks but don't like how they actually play. Am I wrong?
I don't understand why people think the Vanican casting is boring but pact magic isn't. Sure it's structured differently, but it's just a means of being able to determine how many spells you can cast. That's it. There's nothing inherently boring or interesting about it.
I find Vancian casting boring because it quickly becomes an excercise in bookkeeping, and because the gameplay doesn't reproduce the kinds of magic-using characters I want to play. I don't enjoy managing a bunch of spell slots of different levels, nor do I enjoy managing magic as a per-day resource.
Oh, it's different from everyone else! Yay! It still sucks. Having two spell slots sucks. Having almost no spell selection sucks. The Spells became this side thing that you had really only for utility and one big boom spell for a grenade, and then this class that has so much room for flexibility and awesomeness becomes...a sniper.
That's your opinion. And that's what makes it sound like you don't like warlocks. I do like having two spell slots that I can recover easily multiple times throughout an adventuring day. I like having a small, focused spell list. I like having a reliable at-will damage ability, a few utility abilities, and one or two big spells per encounter. That's way, way more fun for me than micromanaging all these slots that only cast under-leveled spells anyway.
And I can very easily love something while pointing out all of its flaws. LIke the Star Wars Prequels. I loved them. Grew up with them. I can point to so many awesome, emotional moments that were just great. Great writing, great cinematography, great characters, great story. But I can also point out Jar Jar Binks, the dialogue between Padme and Anakin, the CGI, the Plot Holes, and all the other problems it has. You CAN be a fan while at the same time understading the object of your fandom is deeply flawed.
Sure, but if all you ever said about the prequels was negative, someone could be forgiven for thinking you don't actually like them. If you say you like the warlock, then I guess you like the warlock, but to me that's a little surprising since you seem to only have bad things to say about it.
I know how the Warlock was SUPPOSED to work, because it is given abilities that suggest certain builds. Like a melee focused Warlock. The Pact of the Blade is RIGHT THERE, and is given all these Invocations to make it work...but it never does. Eldritch Blast with Two Invocations is better at every level. For Melee Warlocks to work, that aren't Hexblades, you need either a Feat for Armor, or the Mage Armor Invocation, plus Improved Pact Weapon, plus Thirsting Blade, plus Lifedrinker, and Improved Pact Weapon was an add on in Tasha's. So that's up to four Invocations and a Boon...and Eldritch Blast with Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast is just better. AND you can have a Familiar to give you advantage or a Tome to give lots and lots of spells. The Pact of the Blade is a Trap option. If a class has a Trap Option, then it is BAD DESIGN.
Pact of the Blade is pretty lacking, sure, I don't disagree with that. I don't think making warlocks half casters fixes that, or has any effect on it at all. Giving all warlocks medium armor proficiency, making thirsting blade an automatic part of pact of the blade, and also letting warlocks use their spellcasting bonus to attack with their pact blade do go a long way towards improving the melee warlock, and those are all changes I like from this packet. I've said several times now I like all of these changes except dropping pact magic for half-casting.
I liked the flexibility of the Invocations and the Boons. I liked the Patrons twisting the flavor. I liked Eldritch Blast and the things you could do with it. Having at will spells, something Wizards don't get till lvl 18, felt great. Mask of Many Faces or Levitate or whatever. One of my Warlocks was illiterate. He was a bard first, and I rolled a 6 for Intelligence, so he was illiterate. Later, he died, and the DM had a demon come to him offering a deal, so he had to multiclass to a Warlock and he'd be able to keep living. I said yes, and he became a warlock.

At lvl 2, he took Eyes of the Rune Keeper, because he was illiterate and that was always a sore spot for him. That Invocation was the Demon getting his hooks DEEP. From then on, every Invocation had to do with the eyees. Devil's Sight, Eldritch Sight, and later he'd have gotten Ghostly Gaze and Witch Sight if I'd ever gotten that far. It's not mechanically smart, but it was this character, and it fit so well.
Awesome! Sounds like a cool character and a great example of why warlocks are awesome.
But that's all Invocations. I basically ignored his spells. I just used the spells as a back up utility or a grenade.
Well, yeah, that's what the warlock's spell slots are for.
My Fire Genasi Fiend Warlock was basically Ghost Rider, with an infernal revolver (Eldritch Blast) that would transform into a grenade launcher when he cast Wall of Fire or Fireball.
Cool!
I want to see how the Warlock plays as a Half Caster. Half Casters don't rely on spells. They rely on their other abilities, but they have spells as back ups, like the Warlock does.
But half-casters get access higher spell levels more slowly. And they have to deal with the godawful neovancian casting system. These are both huge blows to the warlock's fun factor, in my opinion. Dealbreaking blows, in fact.
Paladin pretty much save them for Smites, Rangers oft forget they have them.
Right, in other words, half-casters are not effective as spellcasters, which is not something I want for warlocks.
Plus, it makes Shield a viable warlock spell. That's a good thing! Particularly for those Warlocks who are melee focused. Using Shield with Pact Magic was a complete waste. Not because it wasn't useful, but because it eats spell slots so quickly. Two rounds and your slots are gone. Yeah, you protected yourself from getting hit twice, but now you can't shoot your grenade. Or pretty much anything else.
I definitely wouldn't have taken shield on a warlock, no. This is one of the ways in which they played differently from other casters, and their distinctiveness is something I want preserved. That's a higher priority for me than... uhh... getting to cast shield effectively.
Let's playtest these new ones before we just decide "Oh, it's not different anymore, my life is over! How will I ever go on if the character I play functions like the other I don't need to playtest it because I've played a ton of Vancian
I don't need to playtest this warlock to know what playing a Vancian half-caster is like. I've played plenty of them, it's not something I want for my warlocks. It's not something I want for my rangers either, but I've accepted that class isn't for me. If warlocks become half-casters too, they won't be for me any more either, and at that point I'd rather just play a different game, where more of the options are for me.
 

So I liked the old warlock, alot fun. This one might be ok. Multiclassing with this seems way stronger. And they combined blade pact with hex blade so that's a huge buff for level dipping. I'm interested to see what the survey will show. Just remember the old warlock isnt going away. It's just in a older book.
 

I didn't say you're not a fan of warlocks if you disagree with me. I said it seems like you want to like warlocks but don't like how they actually play. Am I wrong?
Look, I really respect you and think you have great respect for other users in this forum. But in this topic you are gatekeeping people. You told me and a lot of people that because don’t like the warlock for the same reasons as you that we don’t actually like the class, only it’s flavor. That sucks. Just because you can see why we like some mechanics and don’t like others it doesn’t mean we don’t like the class.
 

Look, I really respect you and think you have great respect for other users in this forum. But in this topic you are gatekeeping people. You told me and a lot of people that because don’t like the warlock for the same reasons as you that we don’t actually like the class, only it’s flavor. That sucks. Just because you can see why we like some mechanics and don’t like others it doesn’t mean we don’t like the class.
I have not told anyone they don't like warlocks. If you say you like warlocks, you like warlocks. What I have said is that it seems to me like people are saying they like warlocks while describing disliking the way they actually play. And that is true. People are certainly welcome to explain to me what they do like about the way warlock plays if they want. But also, like, who the hell am I? Nobody should feel the need to justify their enjoyment of warlocks to me. What I am saying is a lot of people like warlocks because they are "snipers with a few grenades" or whatever, and seeing people say they don't like warlocks working that way comes across as saying they don't like warlocks, because that's what warlocks do.
 

As someone who's played an Artillerist Artificer, I can tell you now that the structure they are forcing on the Warlock SUCKS.

It's not fun to play at all. You have a handful of undercooked support spells, a single cantrip to spam, and locked in abilities that everyone else can get.
 

As someone who's played an Artillerist Artificer, I can tell you now that the structure they are forcing on the Warlock SUCKS.

It's not fun to play at all. You have a handful of undercooked support spells, a single cantrip to spam, and locked in abilities that everyone else can get.
And for some reason, people want to make bards and druids use it as well...
 

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