WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

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In no way, shape, or form is hiring some PIs anything like sending goons over to break some legs. Is this a generational thing? I know a lot of people under 30 are terrified enough of phone calls and I can only imagine the abject terror the prospect of a stranger knocking on their door and attempting to have a face-to-face conversation, but there's no credible evidence here that anyone was threatened with bodily harm. Like I said earlier, if they came to my door and I didn't want to talk to them I'd just tell them to go piss up a rope.

This. You don't have to let PIs onto the property and they gave no right to seize the goods.

Here you just tell them to get lost the good woukd need a warrant (they would view it as a civil matter.

They could invoke the misuse off drugs act 1975 eg smelling pot but if it's BS you politely binfirm them you'll film them while they search and when they turn up bupkisd take there service numbers on their shoulders and say you'll lay a complaint with the police complaints authority and ring your lawyer.

Unless They're gell bent on pushing t and you're not aggro about it they'll often back down.
 

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Very possibly most likely true.
It's definitely true. By the time articles were being written, WotC's statement was that this was an investigation into "embargoed product". And, from the beginning, Cannon said that the cards were purchased. The only people in this whole debacle who claimed that the cards were stolen were the Pinkerton private detectives, and I'll get back to that.
I'd disagree. He purchased a different set of card boxes and happened to be given these by mistake.
Sure. Cannon claims he purchased cards and got the wrong ones by mistake. My point here is that nobody was claiming the cards were stolen, so why should he be expected to disprove a claim that nobody was making?
Excellent point. I'd even go as far as to say that them giving Cannon cards to replace the ones he gave up shows their intent was not to intimidate him. Kind of weird to have them say, "You're going to jail, thief! Here's some cards to replace the ones you stole. Be afraid!"
Good cop/bad cop.

According to Cannon, the Pinkerton private detectives showed up unannounced. They got aggressive with his wife. They claimed that the cards were stolen, and that they could bring in law enforcement and he could face jail time and a lawsuit. Then they had him call a WotC representative in their presence. The WotC representative was friendly and conciliatory, and worked out a deal with him. Cannon would hand over the cards and take down his videos, and WotC would send him replacement cards and the guys who threatened him with jail and made his wife cry would go away. This could be framed as Cannon agreeing to cooperate with the investigation, but his cooperation was secured through psychological pressure and threats that I don't think WotC intended to (or even could) actually follow through with.

Like I said in a previous post, private detective agencies have no real power. They can't compel anyone to cooperate with them, so they use dirty tricks. There was no way that the Pinkerton private detectives could have gotten the cards from Cannon without his consent. If they'd done nothing but intimidate him, he might have gotten angry and told them to get off his property, or wised up and said that he would need to call a lawyer, or something along those lines. What they needed to do to secure his consent was get him scared, not give him time to think, and then bring in the good cop to offer a way out. The private detectives had him call the good cop in front of them so that they could apply more pressure if the negotiation went south.

Now, it's possible that Cannon is lying, but the whole thing is such a textbook example of a standard technique that it rings true.
I mean, I think the fact that Cannon had cards that should not have been given to him is proof something was done wrong. Not suggesting it was wrong doing in the criminal sense, but I would suggest it was something that was done incorrectly/wrong by the person who sold to Cannon. Mistakes are made, but it's a bit of a stretch to expect anyone outside of Cannon and his seller to know what actually happened. I'd guess the seller probably didn't even realize it happened unless Cannon told him later (or he has read one of the articles or seen one of the videos). That guy is going to be upset if WoTC cuts him off because of Cannon's video shenanigans.
To be clear, I meant that they should be required to show wrongdoing on Cannon's part. Whoever supplied the cards to Cannon presumably broke the terms of their agreement with WotC, intentionally or unintentionally.
 

I kind of feel like this is a big nothingburger. All this wailing and gnashing of the teeth about WotC hiring the Pinkertons is just a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. Some of you act as if WotC hired the mafia to go break someone's legs.

On the one hand, you are totally right.

On the other hand, its another example of WotC saying its one thing, and then acting another. One would think that after the OGL fiasco people would get it, but they dont want to.

Mostly though, you are right. Sound and fury, signifying nothing. AKA: A (checks day) non-Tuesday, on the internet where everything is magnified into the end of the world, an actual personal trauma, and its all totally not hyperbole.
 

Sure. Cannon claims he purchased cards and got the wrong ones by mistake. My point here is that nobody was claiming the cards were stolen, so why should he be expected to disprove a claim that nobody was making?
Wasn't the claim that the Pinkerton guards accused him of having stolen goods? I'd say that's a claim of the cards being stolen. Wether the cards were or were not doesn't matter. I'm just commenting on a claim being made by the Pinkerton guards.
Good cop/bad cop.

According to Cannon, the Pinkerton private detectives showed up unannounced. They got aggressive with his wife. They claimed that the cards were stolen, and that they could bring in law enforcement and he could face jail time and a lawsuit. Then they had him call a WotC representative in their presence. The WotC representative was friendly and conciliatory, and worked out a deal with him. Cannon would hand over the cards and take down his videos, and WotC would send him replacement cards and the guys who threatened him with jail and made his wife cry would go away. This could be framed as Cannon agreeing to cooperate with the investigation, but his cooperation was secured through psychological pressure and threats that I don't think WotC intended to (or even could) actually follow through with.

Like I said in a previous post, private detective agencies have no real power. They can't compel anyone to cooperate with them, so they use dirty tricks. There was no way that the Pinkerton private detectives could have gotten the cards from Cannon without his consent. If they'd done nothing but intimidate him, he might have gotten angry and told them to get off his property, or wised up and said that he would need to call a lawyer, or something along those lines. What they needed to do to secure his consent was get him scared, not give him time to think, and then bring in the good cop to offer a way out. The private detectives had him call the good cop in front of them so that they could apply more pressure if the negotiation went south.
This is where I just don't get the point of view. We can agree that the cards weren't considered stolen by neither Cannon nor WoTC. We can agree that the WoTC employee who Cannon was in contact with offered to replace the cards they took with the cards he actually intended to purchase. I would hope we could agree that the WoTC employee Cannon contacted was not at Cannon's home when this occurred. Right? Can we agree on that? Can we assume it to be true based on Cannon needing to call a WoTC phone number to contact this WoTC employee?
If the WoTC employee wasn't present, and according to Cannon - even apologized for what had happened, could we at least give this WoTC the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know what tactics Pinkerton would use to procure the cards? Why must every single action made by every single WoTC employee be automatically viewed in the most sinister light? I mean, people keep bringing up the whole OGL issue, but there were WoTC employees putting out information about what WoTC and Hasbro brass were actually doing behind the scenes. I assume people view the actions of those WoTC employees in a positive light. Or am I wrong? Were they just putting on some nefarious act to further hurt 3rd party publishers? If you can consider the actions of those WoTC employees positively and not suspect them of some underhanded plot, why can't you do the same for this particular WoTC employee? Are you assuming it was some WoTC higher up Cannon contacted? Was there an article this was mentioned in? As far as I know, the particular employee Cannon spoke with hasn't been identified nor his position. Could have been some regular employee who is getting all this hate for no other reason than, WoTC bad. All WoTC bad.
Now, it's possible that Cannon is lying, but the whole thing is such a textbook example of a standard technique that it rings true.
Always a possibility, and if we can assume the WoTC employee was playing the "good cop" in the harassment and intimidation act of the Pinkerton thugs, we can assume Cannon is lying to garner support and attention in the hopes of increasing his YouTube channel's viewership and make more money. Just feels disingenuous, doesn't it?
To be clear, I meant that they should be required to show wrongdoing on Cannon's part. Whoever supplied the cards to Cannon presumably broke the terms of their agreement with WotC, intentionally or unintentionally.
That's definitely true. But it seems people also fail to consider how Cannon's actions affected this supplier's financials. Cannon calls him a friend, from what I remember. Cannon putting these videos up let WoTC know that there was a problem, and they will probably discover who it was, if Cannon didn't already tell them. Chances are the supplier may end up having problems in the future procuring WoTC products. If I remember correctly, Cannon mentions his friend was more of a Pokemon enthusiast. Pokemon, a WoTC product, may end up being a bit harder for him to get, along with any other WoTC product (card game or otherwise). Sucks to be that guy.
 


In no way, shape, or form is hiring some PIs anything like sending goons over to break some legs. Is this a generational thing? I know a lot of people under 30 are terrified enough of phone calls and I can only imagine the abject terror the prospect of a stranger knocking on their door and attempting to have a face-to-face conversation, but there's no credible evidence here that anyone was threatened with bodily harm. Like I said earlier, if they came to my door and I didn't want to talk to them I'd just tell them to go piss up a rope.
Generational?Under 30?Me?
 


If the WoTC employee wasn't present, and according to Cannon - even apologized for what had happened, could we at least give this WoTC the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know what tactics Pinkerton would use to procure the cards? Why must every single action made by every single WoTC employee be automatically viewed in the most sinister light? I mean, people keep bringing up the whole OGL issue, but there were WoTC employees putting out information about what WoTC and Hasbro brass were actually doing behind the scenes. I assume people view the actions of those WoTC employees in a positive light. Or am I wrong? Were they just putting on some nefarious act to further hurt 3rd party publishers? If you can consider the actions of those WoTC employees positively and not suspect them of some underhanded plot, why can't you do the same for this particular WoTC employee? Are you assuming it was some WoTC higher up Cannon contacted? Was there an article this was mentioned in? As far as I know, the particular employee Cannon spoke with hasn't been identified nor his position. Could have been some regular employee who is getting all this hate for no other reason than, WoTC bad. All WoTC bad.
I don't know who the private detectives had Cannon call, specifically, but I am certain it was someone in WotC's investigations or intelligence division, or whatever they happen to call it there. (Or, more accurately, at Hasbro's investigations or intelligence division. When I say WotC, you can read it as Hasbro, WotC/Hasbro, or whatever works for you.) Some random regular employee wouldn't be at the other end of the line. It's not like they have Jeremy Crawford or Chris Perkins handle their investigations.

We know that former Pinkerton employees are in at least two key security positions at Hasbro, so of course they would know how Pinkerton private detectives operate. However, as I've said in a previous post, this isn't just about Pinkerton. All private detective agencies operate more or less the same way. Everyone in Hasbro's investigations division would have a basic understanding of how street level investigations are conducted, and the good cop/bad cop approach is a basic technique utilized by investigators and interrogators the world over.
Always a possibility, and if we can assume the WoTC employee was playing the "good cop" in the harassment and intimidation act of the Pinkerton thugs, we can assume Cannon is lying to garner support and attention in the hopes of increasing his YouTube channel's viewership and make more money. Just feels disingenuous, doesn't it?
It's an Occam's Razor thing. Either investigators took a textbook good cop/bad cop approach to obtain Cannon's consent to get the cards, or they took some other approach and Cannon was savvy enough to create a textbook good cop/bad cop approach out of whole cloth. The former seems simpler and far more likely.

(Edited because I am tired and typed Kevin Crawford instead of Jeremy Crawford.)
 



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