D&D (2024) I like the new Warlock

[Charlaquin]

And for some reason, people want to make bards and druids use it as well...

Mostly because full casting eats up all of the design space that could be going towards more unique and interesting abilities. I'd certainly take non-casting bards over half-casting ones, but I don't think most folks would accept that.

Druids should keep their full casting. They're the wizards of the forest, full casting suits them fine.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Mostly because full casting eats up all of the design space that could be going towards more unique and interesting abilities. I'd certainly take non-casting bards over half-casting ones, but I don't think most folks would accept that.

Druids should keep their full casting. They're the wizards of the forest, full casting suits them fine.

I have always preferred to idea of a non casting bard but I gave up on that a long time ago. I love warlocks for their invocations mixed with some spell casting. As far as pact magic goes I am ambivalent, half casters that can atleast cast 1 normal max level spell per day is something that I can live with. That being said seeing how passionate some people love it I hope that they can find a way to make pact magic more flexible for people who want a change.

 

[Bill Zebub]

To me, Pact magic wasn't the key identity of a Warlock but was instead a short rest annoyance for the entire group.

This. It's not a "key identity" it's a metagame mechanic. I can't really imagine a warlock sitting around having a beer with other casters and they'll all, "No $#%&? You get all your spells back after only resting for an hour?"
"Yeah, but bear in mind I only get a couple of them."
"What level?"
"That's the crazy thing: all my spells are cast at the same level."
"Get outta town!"

Sure, it's a standout "identify" from the point of the players, but it would be like building a melee class around the "concept" of rolling 2d10 instead of d20. It's not really a character concept.

It is, as you say, just super annoying for everybody else. "Can we short rest again?"

 

[Bill Zebub]

Mostly because full casting eats up all of the design space that could be going towards more unique and interesting abilities. I'd certainly take non-casting bards over half-casting ones, but I don't think most folks would accept that.

Yay!

Druids should keep their full casting. They're the wizards of the forest, full casting suits them fine.

Boo.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Yay!



Boo.

That is why you keep the druid and just add a new shape-shifting class

 

[Zaukrie]

Encounter powers solve a lot here..... Rather than short rest.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Overall I'm a fan of the changes to warlock. I think it's more like a duskblade, but I don't think that's wrong. I tried playing the class several times, and always found it too shallow to be much fun, and the class felt entirely dead as far as progression from level 4-10. It was very unsatisfying to play during the meat of the game. I felt like an archer, not a warlock. It genuinely felt more magical to play a hunter ranger.

That said, I remain very unhappy with how half casters get 4th and 5th level spells. I think being delayed 3-4 levels behind other casters is fine. I don't think getting 4th and 5th level spells 7 to 9 levels after other classes get them is remotely reasonable. This has always been my complaint with half casters (and third casters). It's exacerbated now because there are even fewer spells that belong to only one class.

The worst part is that basically the only reason they're like this is because it makes multiclassing rules easy. Since I also have grown to hate multiclassing, I see this as a net negative. Make Ranger, Paladin, Artificer, and now Warlock all have really sucky spellcasting just because multiclassing is broken. I'm so sick of that stupid reason for having stupid designs in the game. "Oh, we can't give out good abilities at level 1! Multiclassing would be broken!" It's especially frustrating because multiclassing is still too good!

 

[Charlaquin]

This. It's not a "key identity" it's a metagame mechanic. I can't really imagine a warlock sitting around having a beer with other casters and they'll all, "No $#%&? You get all your spells back after only resting for an hour?"
"Yeah, but bear in mind I only get a couple of them."
"What level?"
"That's the crazy thing: all my spells are cast at the same level."
"Get outta town!"

That would actually be hilarious though

Sure, it's a standout "identify" from the point of the players, but it would be like building a melee class around the "concept" of rolling 2d10 instead of d20. It's not really a character concept.

That is why I've been saying "mechanical identity."

It is, as you say, just super annoying for everybody else. "Can we short rest again?"

I don't get why that would be annoying. It's not like it harms them in any way.

 

[Mistwell]

Encounter powers solve a lot here..... Rather than short rest.

I have some fond memories of 4e, but it's gone. Encounter powers are not coming back. They didn't make sense and were an artificial game balance rule. The character doesn't know what an encounter is, only the player and DM knows. Everything in life including you reading this message is an "encounter" and it just doesn't make sense, even in a fantasy world, for quantity of powers to be based on encounters.

Now if you want to say a spell slot recharges every minute, or after you spend a minute doing nothing, that we could work with.

 

[Mistwell]

I don't get why that would be annoying. It's not like it harms them in any way.

Except when it does. Which in our games is often.

So many adventures have time pressures built in that I just don't understand how others don't understand time pressure in an adventure. All those wandering monster charts (most adventures), death curses that causes populations to die over time (tomb of annihilation), poison gas filled dungeons (hidden shrine), etc.. How is this a new concept to some people? How have you played D&D for this many years and found that your PCs can just stop for an hour wherever they are whenever they want to and nothing bad ever happens?

And that's not even accounting for longer-duration based spells and other abilities that run out because of an hour rest.