D&D (2024) They butchered the warlock in the new packet

[The Shadow]

Honestly feels MORE Bardic in a way. You could either pick extra spell slots, add more abilities with weapons or maybe even extra skill expertise. Really build your Bard to be as magical as you want.

I really wouldn't mind backing the bard way off from casting from slots. It just doesn't feel like the way they do things... I'd like to see a bard whose singing and playing is magically charged, but who isn't casting spells per se. Potentially you could even be a magical bard without realizing it!

I'm not sure why they're arcane, either. Traditionally they're associated with druids, maybe they should be primal.

 

[The Shadow]

I really wouldn't mind backing the bard way off from casting from slots. It just doesn't feel like the way they do things... I'd like to see a bard whose singing and playing is magically charged, but who isn't casting spells per se. Potentially you could even be a magical bard without realizing it!

I'm not sure why they're arcane, either. Traditionally they're associated with druids, maybe they should be primal.

Thinking about this some more, silo-ing effects within something like invocations might work well for the bard. So, say you take the Illusion "invocation" (or whatever it ends up being called). You start out with Silent Image or whatever, but as you gain in levels it automatically upgrades to better illusions. Likewise, maybe Enchantment starts out as Friends, then moves to Suggestion, then to some sort of Charm. Bards doing healing has never quite sat right with me, but that would fit in the same paradigm.

Now for a really crazy idea. If I'm right and bards are primal, that means we've got two primal experts - bards and rangers. Could it be that one is a subclass of the other? Or that they're both subclasses of something else? Probably not, but it's interesting to think about.

 

[mamba]

The entire freaking forum is about debating the direction the new thing should take. Sitting down and shutting up just ensure we never improve.

me telling you to shut up gives it a better chance of improving

I did not tell you to shut up, I told you to play the version you prefer...

 

[mamba]

Yeah, but that changes the style of play. We shouldn't be required to pick between a survival horror game that works, or a super-heroic game that works, or a heroic action-adventure game that doesn't work and is also the default.

We've got a game where easy works and hard works, but normal doesn't work. That's kind of odd.

so pick whatever makes sense for your game, no one says you have to stick to what is in the PHB or the DMG

 

[Remathilis]

I for one would feel uncomfortable with a character walking into a boss fight with six top level spells. Don't care if it's a short rest per se, but the nova level being capped is part of the balance.

I realize you'd have to control somehow the raw power of this. Its not a serious proposal as much as a feeler for if theoretically having all your spell slots in the beginning of the day having was comparable to recovering them throughout (if all other factors are equal).

For example...

Speaking for myself, that would be unsatisfying, because now I have to manage 6 spell slots over the course of a whole adventuring day instead of managing just 2 spell slots over the course of about an encounter or two. I don’t like managing resources over a whole adventuring day. That’s much more difficult to make good predictions about, so I end up hoarding my spell slots and never using them. With short rest recovery I only have to evaluate, “do I need to use this limited resource now?” instead of “when over the course of six encounters am I going to have the greatest need to use this limited resource?”

For me, it's the opposite. I don't like not knowing if I will have access to short rests and I find the longer attrition more satisfying. I don't like counting my chickens before they are hatched, and to be warlocks are a gamble that short rests will be available. Ideally,

I like how Wizards have full access but can get a small fraction back once on a short rest. I feel more casters should have something like that: you get the bulk of your power in the beginning of the day, but a short rest can replenish a fraction of it. Channel Nature works like this (you get an escalating set amount per day, plus you can recover one if you have a short rest). If you don't get a short rest, you still had 2-4 depending on level. If you do get one, you get a bonus use.

 

[Remathilis]

There are absolutely times when resting is impractical. This is the case for long rests as well as short rests - more so, in fact, because they take eight times as long.

The issue being long rest classes are built with enough resources to last through those kinds of adventures. Typically, you enter the encounter refreshed and don't take a long rest until you leave. Whereas short rests assume breaks in the adventure itself, and those aren't always as predictable. Certainly not enough to balance a whole class around.

 

[mamba]

It's the ability to cast too many high level spells in the same encounter that is the issue if you simply triple the slots.

that is not a problem, that simply means you do not have them for the next encounter, just like everyone else

 

[Remathilis]

that is not a problem, that simply means you do not have them for the next encounter, just like everyone else

While true, having access to six fireballs at level 5 is probably broken, especially when a wizard or sorcerer gets it maybe twice (or if a sorcerer dumps a lot of spell slots into socrcery points, three times).

 

[mellored]

I guess I'm akin how important is the "short rest" part of the mechanic?

It reduces nova potential.

Blasting 6 fireballs in a single fight and then running away to rest, is different 2 fireballs per fight.

 

[Remathilis]

It reduces nova potential.

Blasting 6 fireballs in a single fight and then running away to rest, is different 2 fireballs per fight.

I get that. I was just wondering if such a restriction needs to be tied to short rests or could we guarantee somehow "You WILL get six slots, just not all at once" would be acceptable.