D&D (2024) I like the new Warlock

[Shardstone]

But does the warlock have way more utility than the Paladin or the Ranger? Because those are entirely appropriate comparisons.

And a ranger should be outshooting Eldritch Blast at least before Level 17.

Yes. Mystic Arcana. Your comparisons all feel shallow, like they don't see the forest for the trees.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's worse than that.
You now get level 1 arcane spell slots.

And mage armor lasts 8 hours, so it's not like spamming it helps. (Abdurartion wizard excluded).

Good point. I hadn't considered how the casting slots change that value even more.

you don't need agonizing blast with Tome. They get +cha to damage at 5.

I'd forgotten that, that is at least a good boon for the Tome, as they are going to be struggling compared to the others.

They can still use Eldritch Blast as well as any other warlock. And use the weapon in melee.

Not saying it's great, but you can't use crossbow expert to avoid disadvantage anymore.

Right, but that is the PROBLEM I'm talking about. You can still use Eldritch Blast, and it is better than the thing you are specializing in doing. That has always been a big problem with the Bladelock, because people take Eldritch Blast "just in case" and then realize... they are better off doing what every single other warlock already does.

That's why I say remove the Heavy Restriction, it gives the melee warlocks the option of dealing more damage than their ranged counter-parts, with the risk of being in melee. That is a risk that should be rewarded, in my mind.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yes. Mystic Arcana. Your comparisons all feel shallow, like they don't see the forest for the trees.

But to properly use Mystic Arcana requires half your invocations. That is a major investment just to not be falling behind.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

deleted. Saw I agreed!

 

[Valetudo]

Should invocations like agonizing blast and ect. Be added into the pacts like tomb gets cha at lvl5 and blade uses cha to attack. That makes certain invocations free for that pact but others pay a tax. I do kinda think that mystic arcanum should be free. At least the 6-9th ones.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Good point. I hadn't considered how the casting slots change that value even more.



I'd forgotten that, that is at least a good boon for the Tome, as they are going to be struggling compared to the others.



Right, but that is the PROBLEM I'm talking about. You can still use Eldritch Blast, and it is better than the thing you are specializing in doing. That has always been a big problem with the Bladelock, because people take Eldritch Blast "just in case" and then realize... they are better off doing what every single other warlock already does.

That's why I say remove the Heavy Restriction, it gives the melee warlocks the option of dealing more damage than their ranged counter-parts, with the risk of being in melee. That is a risk that should be rewarded, in my mind.

The heavy weapon is how someone who goes blade CAN outdo EB spam…

It costs a lot currently but is worth it even now. ONE may make it easier for folks.

Hell I would even be ok if the spellcasting stat only applied to non heavy weapons but you could still get multiple attacks using str!

 

[Shardstone]

But to properly use Mystic Arcana requires half your invocations. That is a major investment just to not be falling behind.

That's a different argument to a different point, and has nothing to do with the fact that Warlocks have more utility than Fighters, and can choose to spend more resources to have more one-off utility than Rangers and Paladins. I'm uninterested in any part of this debate outside of the actual core premise.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Yes. Mystic Arcana. Your comparisons all feel shallow, like they don't see the forest for the trees.

You mean one thing per invocation once per day replacing the biggest class feature?

Your desperate attempts to defend this "warlock" all feel like wishful thinking entirely unconnected to either practical analysis or actual play.

 

[Shardstone]

You mean one thing per invocation once per day replacing the biggest class feature?

Your desperate attempts to defend this "warlock" all feel like wishful thinking entirely unconnected to either practical analysis or actual play.

No one is desperate. Why did you say that? Are you trying to paint me as more emotional than I am? Are you trying to dismiss my arguments by telling me that I'm somehow clawing at the bit to "defend" this Warlock? I find it very strange that you decided to make a personal attack and call me desperate, when none of my text shows any desperation at all, instead of actually engaging with my points.

 

[Neonchameleon]

No one is desperate. Why did you say that?

Because of just how hard you seem to be trying to attempt to deny how bad this warlock is.

If Mystic Arcana, as your post indicated, is actually all that then any sensible person would accept that it is unequivocal that the warlock took some utterly and truly savage nerfs in this version. They had mystic arcana and high level invocations.

Or to put things another way if WotC think that Mystic Arcana were what warlocks needed to keep up they should have made them into class features. Which they did in the 2014 warlock. But took away for this cheap knock off.

In other words your attempt to claim that Mystic Arcana give the D&Done warlock what it needs is a damning criticism of that warlock.

I find it very strange that you decided to make a personal attack and call me desperate, when none of my text shows any desperation at all, instead of actually engaging with my points.

I find it very strange that you had the sheer nerve to call my comparisons shallow and claim I don't see the forest for the trees. Despite the fact that I'm the one who's been talking about how the whole package fits together and the one who's been providing numbers and analysis while your defences of this warlock appear to be all vibes-based and many of them are, like your latest, self-refuting.

Goodbye