D&D (2024) I like the new Warlock

[Valetudo]

Level tiers. Wotc has published them in a few places but I'm not looking them up. I think that tier 1 is 1-4, tier2 5-10, tier3 11 to ummmm... 16 maybe? Pretty sure tier4 is 17-20.

Then I'm talking about how the tomblock gets cha to eb damage at lvl 5, so that would be tier2. But the blade lock does get his at lvl 1. I'm thinking tomblocks get eb upgrades, bladelocks get weapon based upgrades and chains get pet upgrades. Then you give those options as invocations that other builds pay to get. I do still think the 6-9th lvl MAs need to be free as part of the base class. Honestly I'm fine with the warlock as a half caster because I think it can be swapped out with short rest mechanics from og 5th. Oh and give bladelocks a weapon mastery or a warlock specific melee cantrip.

 

[Neonchameleon]

It's still kind of a trap. You attack up to 4 times for d10+Cha at range, vs attacking twice for d8+Cha in melee.

This is only true at level 17. The big thing Pact Weapon gets that enables it to keep up at up to level 16 is magic weapons, and you can get those more easily than pact rods and they are often more powerful.

This doesn't prevent the warlock being squishy of course.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Remember at the start of every playtest packet they say that they haven't really bothered to completely balanced everything yet, and they will do a big balance pass after they have locked things down more.

LOL, like I trust WOTC to balance anything. Balance takes effort, and to a good chunk of their customers act personally attacked by attempts to balance the game. The usual defenders will go "but muh arr pee!" as though they can't roleplay if Pact of the Blade dealt equal damage, and it will get pushed out roughly the same, because that's easiest.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

This is only true at level 17. The big thing Pact Weapon gets that enables it to keep up at up to level 16 is magic weapons, and you can get those more easily than pact rods and they are often more powerful.

This doesn't prevent the warlock being squishy of course.

The optional magic weapons you aren't guaranteed to get and supposedly aren't taken into account? It falls behind at 11th level with the third blast. It would be easy to fix it with more scaling than just the extra attack at 5th level.

They should absolutely remove the non-heavy restriction from Pact Weapon as well, or just say that all pact weapons deal d10, so if people can flavor the appearance however they want.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Not a fan. I don't like how oppressive Hex + ED + AB spam is in the current version of the Warlock, and this new version is pushing them even further in that direction. Its not just cementing Hex and Eldritch Blast into the class itself that does this, it is also reducing the power of its spellcasting to make casting a spell a less viable option that just eldritch blasting every round.

That, and even if you spend 7 of your 9 invocations just on mystic arcanum, you'll still probably be below an actual spellcaster.

Warlocks lost a lot of uniqueness and some power, and I'm not seeing the added complexity that they gained as being worthwhile.

 

[Gorck]

I just had a stupid idea: replace the "Cantrip Upgrade" part of Pact Weapon with "Hideous Blow. Rather than dealing your weapon's normal damage, you can channel your Eldritch Blast through your conjured weapon. At higher levels, when your Eldritch Blast would normally gain an additional beam, you instead gain an additional attack." Agonizing blast would still apply if you take it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I just had a stupid idea: replace the "Cantrip Upgrade" part of Pact Weapon with "Hideous Blow. Rather than dealing your weapon's normal damage, you can channel your Eldritch Blast through your conjured weapon. At higher levels, when your Eldritch Blast would normally gain an additional beam, you instead gain an additional attack." Agonizing blast would still apply if you take it.

Yes! This! I’ve been going bonks with this since 2015 or so. Like how is this not the only sensible way to go?!

 

[tetrasodium]

Then I'm talking about how the tomblock gets cha to eb damage at lvl 5, so that would be tier2. But the blade lock does get his at lvl 1. I'm thinking tomblocks get eb upgrades, bladelocks get weapon based upgrades and chains get pet upgrades. Then you give those options as invocations that other builds pay to get. I do still think the 6-9th lvl MAs need to be free as part of the base class. Honestly I'm fine with the warlock as a half caster because I think it can be swapped out with short rest mechanics from og 5th. Oh and give bladelocks a weapon mastery or a warlock specific melee cantrip.

Look more closely at some of the abilities.

Spoiler: 1st level Spellcasting

1ST LEVEL: SPELLCASTING
Delving into eldritch secrets, you have learned
how to cast spells. See the Player’s Handbook for
the rules on spellcasting. The information below
details how you use those rules as a Warlock.
Cantrips. You know two cantrips of your
choice from the Arcane spell list. Rather than
choosing, you may start with Chill Touch and
Prestidigitation. Whenever you gain a Warlock
level, you can replace one of your cantrips with
another Arcane cantrip of your choice.
When you reach 4th and 10th level in this
class, you learn another Arcane cantrip of your
choice, as shown in the Cantrips column of the
Warlock table.

Spoiler: Pact weapon

PACT WEAPON
Conjuration Cantrip (Warlock)
Casting Time: Action
Range: Self
Component: S
Duration: 24 hours
Tracing arcane sigils in the air, you conjure a
Simple or Martial melee weapon of your choice
in your outstretched hand, or you create a bond
with a magic weapon you touch. The weapon you
conjure or touch must lack the Heavy property,
and the spell fails if you touch a magic item that
is attuned to someone else.
For the duration, the weapon grants you the
following benefits:
Eldritch Warrior. When you attack with the
weapon, you can use your spellcasting ability
modifier for the attack and damage rolls,
instead of using Strength or Dexterity.
Proficiency. You have proficiency with the
weapon.
Returning Weapon. If the weapon has the
Thrown property, the weapon returns to your
hand immediately after hitting or missing a
target.
The spell ends early if you cast the spell again
or die. When it ends, a conjured weapon
disappears, or your bond with

Spoiler: Book of shadows

OF SHADOWS
Conjuration Cantrip (Warlock)
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Self
Component: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
Stitching together strands of shadow, you
conjure forth a book in your hand. The book
contains eldritch magic that only you can access,
granting you the following benefits:
Cantrips and Rituals. When the book appears,
choose two cantrips, and choose two 1st-level
spells that have the Ritual tag. The spells can
be from the Arcane, Divine, and Primal spell
lists, and they must be spells you don’t already
have prepared. While the book is on your
person, you have the chosen spells prepared.
Spellcasting Focus. You can use the book as a
Spellcasting Focus.
The book disappears if you cast this spell again
or die.
Cantrip Upgrade. When you reach 5th level as
a Warlock, This spell also enhances other
cantrips while the book is on your person; you
can add your Warlock spellcasting ability
modifier to the damage rolls of any cantrip you
cast that doesn’t already have that modifier
added to its damage roll. a magic weapon
stops.

I suspect that the phrase "from the arcane spell list with the class specific spells & cantrips" likely falls under the same wording gap that results in a wizard who loses a spellbook without scribe spell prepared being unable to ever scribe a spell or replace their spellbook. Warlocks start with two cantrips... Pick the other one as one of your two cantrips.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I am not saying Pact Blade warlocks are perfect, but they are a hell of a lot better than they used to be. It's a good start, but they still have more work to do. But, hey, it's a first draft in a playtest. Finding these sorts of problems is what the playtest is for. It's still early we still have plenty of time for further iteration.

Remember at the start of every playtest packet they say that they haven't really bothered to completely balanced everything yet, and they will do a big balance pass after they have locked things down more. Even if Pact Blade Warlocks are still currently weaker, It does show that the developers are aware of the problem and started to make changes to address it. They are working on the problem and I am not going to get concerned or upset about it now. I can wait to see how further iteration on it look.

I fully agree with everything here except one thing. I am going to be concerned about it, and tell them I am concerned about it in the survey. Because I cannot simply assume they will choose to fix it of their own volition. We need to tell them, strongly, that it needs to be fixed.

 

[codo]

Yes! This! I’ve been going bonks with this since 2015 or so. Like how is this not the only sensible way to go?!

That really is the simplest and cleanest way to do it.

I think it could work to allow your pact blade to be any melee weapon and the damage is 1d10 or the original damage, if it is higher. Then let the warlock attack with their casting stat only if the weapon has finesse or light. That way a warlock could use a heavy two handed weapon but to do so they need to invest in strength. I like the idea of using your casting stat for attacks, but I am kind of hesitant to let them use heavy weapons with it.

Pact of the Blade should probably also allow bladelocks to take warrior feats like rangers and paladins can. When playing around building a bladelock it is pretty frustrating that you can't take any of the good weapon feats without multiclassing. At the very least there should be an invocation that lets you take a warrior feat.