D&D 5E (2024) I like the new Warlock

[Remathilis]

Interesting, but can you make a Warlock that has more engaging things to do during combat than repeatedly Eldritch Blast?

You could, but then it would be a wizard.

 

[Clint_L]

You could, but then it would be a wizard.

Is that the only option?

What about if each subclass of Warlock could also function as a willing avatar of their patron, gradually unlocking more and more features until by level 20 they are basically a terrestrial incarnation of the patron - much weaker than the entity itself, but still pretty darn powerful?

 

[Mistwell]

Interesting, but can you make a Warlock that has more engaging things to do during combat than repeatedly Eldritch Blast?

Looking at what Ashrym just posted before your post...how do you conclude that's not a whole ton of cool stuff to do during combat that isn't Eldritch Blast?

 

[Steampunkette]

"We want to make the Warlock more unique and engaging!"
proceeds to rip out the Warlock-Unique mechanics
"See? Isn't that better and more unique as a half-caster?"

Some of the changes are better. Like Medium Armor at level 1. The pact boon swapped in at 1 and the patron swapped in at 3 is... interesting? I feel like it kind of craps on the whole "Beholden to a dark power" if you don't know what dark power it is 'til 3rd level, universally. But pact weapon is nice at level 1 when you're actually roughly on-par with the rest of the characters in survivability.

But the spellcasting? Yeesh.

Should've stuck with a short-rest recharge and just given them more spell slots. More specifically: A couple low-level slots, a couple mid-level slots, and a couple high level slots they gain as they level. So they start out at level 1 with a level 1 slot, they get a second level 1 spell slot at level 2. Then they lose a level 1 and get a level 2 slot at level 3. At level 4 they get a second level 2 slot, then they get a level 3 slot at level 5 and lose a level 2 slot.

And just kinda ratchet up as you go so they slowly get more spell slots, and have slots of a few levels. Maybe 2 level 1, 2 level 3, 2 level 5 when they get up into the high end.

As far as the Pact-Cantrips:
Blade: Not -super- thrilled by the pact weapon cantrip requiring an action but with a duration of 24 hours it's not a dealbreaker or anything. Having a cantrip that only ever improves -once- though? Eesh. Should've made the pact weapon 'smite' with extra D6s of damage at 10 and 15. Lifedrinker basically does that at 9... but then you never improve your 'from level 1' class ability choice again.
Book: HECK YES. Great design choice to allow the Warlock to swap out two cantrips and two first level spells with an hour's preparation. Adding Int or Wis to all cantrips is also pretty crazy good... especially since you can also get agonizing blast and do 1d10+Int+Int. Gift of the Protectors is kind of... Death Note Inverse which feels less "Warlock" to me but... uh... whatever?
Chain: Way better in combat, what with the reaction attack-command and using -your- attack bonus to hit for 3-12 points of damage (Based on level)... Becomes good, even, at level 9 by adding a status effect that has a decent chance of landing.

So yeah. There's some good changes, here. But they gutted the thing that really made Warlocks -unique-. There were other paths they could've, and should've, taken.

 

[renbot]

I have a suggestion: its called make warlocks a full caster and remove agonizing blast. But I'm pretty sure that's not in the cards.

Or make a common (IME) houserule official: AB applies to one EB per turn.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Or make a common (IME) houserule official: AB applies to one EB per turn.

I am glad to see more people not liking AB applying to all four attacks. Eb is nice but I like variety, expecialy if I am going tome but loosing 5-10 damage just isn't worth what utility the other cantrips offer.

 

[cbwjm]

I've always found eldritch blast to be boring AF, it's power often pigeon-holes warlock players into using it. It's why I'd much rather it acted as a force version of fire bolt and then had invocations affecting all cantrips. Making EB now a warlock feature is one thing I don't like about the new warlock, but I otherwise think the overall update to the warlock is better. I'm less enthused about the sorcerer and wizard changes.

While I do think it would be better to make the pact with something at 1st level, the changes to subclasses means that's not gonna happen.

 

[WanderingMystic]

I don't mind the change to making your pact until 3rd level. Your first few powers feel more like you are getting them from your first level pact anyway. You find this old tome which allows you to learn some magical abilities and then once you have proven yourself to the book it opens up the ability to strike a pact with a major entity (swap tome out with weapon or familiar). It also in my mind makes a dip inot warlock more thematically appropriate since you are not making any major bargains.

 

[Ashrym]

Interesting, but can you make a Warlock that has more engaging things to do during combat than repeatedly Eldritch Blast?

Minor illusion at 1st level and silent image at will at 2nd level allows for decent illusion spamming when eldritch blast is still doing little more than a crossbow bolt. Illusions can be engaging in combat outside of damage spam. Spamming cantrips at low levels isn't exactly atypical of spellcasters though. Cantrips are also very easy to obtain on a warlock.

For example, a human tomelock with the guide background can go WIS based who swaps the skilled feat for a second magic initiate feat and at 2nd level take misty visions and lessons of the first ones (for the 3rd magic initiate feat. Skipping agonizing blast isn't a huge loss at that level and the book of shadows will pick up the bonus damage later anyway.

So at second level the tomelock can looks something like this:

CANTRIPS
Warlock -- eldritch blast, minor illusion, prestidigitation
Book of Shadows -- light, message
Magic Initiate (primal) -- druidcraft, resistance
Magic Initiate (divine) -- thaumaturgy, guidance
Magic Initiate (arcane) -- mage hand, friends

SPELLS
Warlock -- hex, shield, sleep, detect magic
Book of Shadows -- alarm, unseen servant
Magic Initiate (primal) -- faerie fire
Magic Initiate (divine) -- bane
Magic Initiate (arcane) -- thunderwave

SLA's -- silent image

Adding options like that isn't hard and we don't need to be that excessive. The only significant drawback to the UA warlock is access to higher level spells is only available through mystic arcanum so a player is forced to cycle through mystic arcanum for that access.

EB spam isn't something that somehow becomes more prevalent than before. The number of spell slots from the UA is favorable over pact magic short rests unless 3+ short rests were consistently available (other than low levels but other cantrips and sla's cover that) and the UA warlock has more spells known. That creates more competition for choices within the action economy.

What I'm going to play with next is a melee build and see how that plays.

Looking at what Ashrym just posted before your post...how do you conclude that's not a whole ton of cool stuff to do during combat that isn't Eldritch Blast?

TBF, the rate of access to higher level spells does have a negative impact. It's kind of noticeable when all your spells slots can go to 3-5th level spells under pact magic and only go up to 2-3rd level spells in the same level range. Trading off higher level spells for a more lower options is a loss of options at those levels.

It's one of the reasons I requested more invocations in my feedback to cover it a bit better.

If we couldn't cycle through mystic arcanum for some of that access the newer model would be a hard pass instead of workable with some growing pains. I suspect trying an EB/hex spammer build and a melee build is going to be a different story without the invocations going towards higher level spell access at first. We'll have to see.

Should've stuck with a short-rest recharge and just given them more spell slots.
...
Book: HECK YES. Great design choice to allow the Warlock to swap out two cantrips and two first level spells with an hour's preparation. Adding Int or Wis to all cantrips is also pretty crazy good... especially since you can also get agonizing blast and do 1d10+Int+Int. Gift of the Protectors is kind of... Death Note Inverse which feels less "Warlock" to me but... uh... whatever?

There are spells that would need to be adjusted on the arcane spell list to accommodate the short rest recharge mechanic. Animate dead during downtime or wilderness travel for example. Shared spell lists creates issues over individual spell lists because of mechanics like short rest recovery when the spells were designed with long rests in mind.

The book of shadows allowing for changing cantrips and rituals via short rest is something I do like better than hunting down rituals. I can basically do any 1st level ritual spell for 2hrs instead of 1hr as the worst case practical effect. Agonizing blast and the book of shadows bonus doens't stack for damage though.

When you reach 5th level as a Warlock, this spell also enhances other cantrips while the book is on your person; you can add your Warlock spellcasting ability modifier to the damage rolls of any cantrip you cast that doesn’t already have that modifier added to its damage roll.

Agonizing blast already adds that modifier so having agonizing blast becomes pointless with book of shadows.

 

[Steampunkette]

As far as animated dead, @Ashrym , there's Arcane Spells that Wizards don't get, like the Sorcerer Self-Heal. Just do -that- with spells like Animate Dead. Slap "Wizard" on it and the problem's solved. Just make a separate Warlock-Specific undead-summoning line.

Good catch on the book, though.