D&D (2024) I like the new Warlock

[Ashrym]

As far as animated dead, @Ashrym , there's Arcane Spells that Wizards don't get, like the Sorcerer Self-Heal. Just do -that- with spells like Animate Dead. Slap "Wizard" on it and the problem's solved. Just make a separate Warlock-Specific undead-summoning line.

That would exclude animate dead from other casters too, or create multiple versions of the same spell. That seems like more work than changing one spell that works for all casters.

The class spells exclude other casters, not one class. If we start making a lot of class spells we might as well just continue with class spell lists instead of shared lists.

I would prefer class lists anyway. ;-)

 

[Mistwell]

TBF, the rate of access to higher level spells does have a negative impact. It's kind of noticeable when all your spells slots can go to 3-5th level spells under pact magic and only go up to 2-3rd level spells in the same level range. Trading off higher level spells for a more lower options is a loss of options at those levels.

It's one of the reasons I requested more invocations in my feedback to cover it a bit better.

If we couldn't cycle through mystic arcanum for some of that access the newer model would be a hard pass instead of workable with some growing pains. I suspect trying an EB/hex spammer build and a melee build is going to be a different story without the invocations going towards higher level spell access at first. We'll have to see.

I asked for something similar. Rather than more Mystic Arcanum, I asked for some Mystic Arcanum be built into the base class as it was essentially required for higher level spells, and then some room for non-MA invocations

 

[HammerMan]

So we have tried new warlock a few different ways. It is not the worst class but it is not as fun as the old version is what most of us agreed.

One person is making a gestalt of the two to try. So far she has pact cantrips and pact magic but also the extra spells know from subclass and 1/ long rest can cast one of those for free. She kept the 2014 spell list though but made eldritch blast and hex class features and contact patron special ability.

We have not yet tried her hybrid. However she is setting up a mini campaign with jumps to try it at 3rd 8th 12th and 20th in 4 adventures.

However she also has a homebrew hybrid fighter to play with.

Edit: oh and she is building in half the arcana. So at level 13 16 and 19 you get 1 free of 6th 7th and 8th but you can take more as invocations and you can even take 2nd 6th 7th and 8th with those

 

[EzekielRaiden]

So, I'm quite a bit late to the party here, and doing a quick search in the thread doesn't seem to show any such mention of it...

Is no one talking about how they absolutely nerfed the invocation amount? One of the most precious things Warlocks have? Because, sure, you now get 9 of them instead of 8. You also just lost four due to them making Mystic Arcanum an Invocation. I've carefully read through the text, and I'm straight-up not seeing where they have compensated for that loss, especially since Mystic Arcana was unquestionably the most powerful feature Warlocks had (being, y'know, 6-9th level spells.) Having the Patron spells truly added to your spells known is of course quite nice, but it still doesn't make up for the massive nerf...unless I'm missing something really important?

 

[TwoSix]

So, I'm quite a bit late to the party here, and doing a quick search in the thread doesn't seem to show any such mention of it...

Is no one talking about how they absolutely nerfed the invocation amount? One of the most precious things Warlocks have? Because, sure, you now get 9 of them instead of 8. You also just lost four due to them making Mystic Arcanum an Invocation. I've carefully read through the text, and I'm straight-up not seeing where they have compensated for that loss, especially since Mystic Arcana was unquestionably the most powerful feature Warlocks had (being, y'know, 6-9th level spells.) Having the Patron spells truly added to your spells known is of course quite nice, but it still doesn't make up for the massive nerf...unless I'm missing something really important?

It's been mentioned (I know I've posted about it, although not sure if it was this thread). But yea, it's a definite nerf, and a nerf that's completely orthogonal to the pact magic to half caster change.

 

[Pauln6]

So, I'm quite a bit late to the party here, and doing a quick search in the thread doesn't seem to show any such mention of it...

Is no one talking about how they absolutely nerfed the invocation amount? One of the most precious things Warlocks have? Because, sure, you now get 9 of them instead of 8. You also just lost four due to them making Mystic Arcanum an Invocation. I've carefully read through the text, and I'm straight-up not seeing where they have compensated for that loss, especially since Mystic Arcana was unquestionably the most powerful feature Warlocks had (being, y'know, 6-9th level spells.) Having the Patron spells truly added to your spells known is of course quite nice, but it still doesn't make up for the massive nerf...unless I'm missing something really important?

A few common invocations have rolled into the pacts though.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

A few common invocations have rolled into the pacts though.

someone did the math out for both pact of blade and pact of tome taking into account the book of shadow and the thirsting blade invocations being built in. It came out with -3 invocation in order to be able to be 'upto 2014' at a low double digit number and went up to -4 by 20th. I know part of that was trading your 5th level arcana for the 8th or 9th level one when you got 5th level spells at 17th.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

A few common invocations have rolled into the pacts though.

From what I could tell, it was one invocation per pact. Book of Ancient Secrets for Tome, Thirsting Blade for Blade, and Voice of the Chain Master for Chain. So you would still be down two invocations minimum by the end, even with the "increase" to 9 total Invocations (-4 sunk into Eldritch Arcanum, +1 for increased maximum, effective +1 from a 2014 invocation getting folded into the Pact.)

 

[EzekielRaiden]

someone did the math out for both pact of blade and pact of tome taking into account the book of shadow and the thirsting blade invocations being built in. It came out with -3 invocation in order to be able to be 'upto 2014' at a low double digit number and went up to -4 by 20th. I know part of that was trading your 5th level arcana for the 8th or 9th level one when you got 5th level spells at 17th.

Yeah, from what I'm seeing, you'd be a fool not to invest your 5th and 7th level invocations into Mystic Arcanum to get 3rd and 4th level spell slots respectively. Upcycle Mystic Arcanum invocations when you get equivalent slots to what you already have (so 3rd->5th when you hit level 9.)

Even for a relatively rest-starved 2014 Warlock (as in, never more than 2 SR/day, usually only one), I'm pretty sure total spell levels cast per day favor them and not the playtest Warlock unless you're spending invocations to get spell slots "early."

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

While they could argue that the fewer invocations are a balance for the warlock getting a lot more spell slots, I still think whatever final design they come up with should feel like a net positive, and include interesting, diversely designed options to lure Warlock lovers to try the updated class.

I like the mix and match feel of "pick a mini pact option and pick a big pact option, and between them you get to choose between 12+ different combinations that each hit a little bit different." A Blade-boon Infernal Warlock is just one of 4+ blade boon warlock types.

The more invocations they can allow, the more diverse the combinations can be. People can pick the boon-impacting invocations needed to enchance their pact boon efffectiveness, and be mix it up with some flavorful invocations too.