D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Chaosmancer]

I share that stance. And that's fine. Just say in the book that its a magical world and everyone has magic in them. It would change the default assumptions of D&D, but that's fine too.

But you have to be explicit about that. And 5e isn't.

Ah yes, no one would ever know that a world with magical elves, magical gnomes, magical dwarves, demonically blooded people, angelically blooded people, magical dragons, magical giants, magical plants, magical items, and people who use magic might actually be a magical world and many if not most people have magical potential. I mean, unless you spelled it out somehow.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So I'm glad that you acknowledge this. But here's the thing. One set of folks is benefitting from incompletely addressed narrative justification, and another is not being allowed to.

Like folks want to rally around this "narrative matters" banner, but the fact of the matter is, it only seems to matter selectively. And martials are not selected for..reasons.

Well, I can only speak for myself, and I think it matters to and for everyone. I certainly make sure it matters in my games. What else can you do if the books won't cooperate?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Various eastern inspired stories, focusing on cultivation or martial arts training. The serene moment of clarity trope is pretty common in those.

Fair enough. Does the narrative behind the monk provide some connective tissue there, perhaps?

 

[Incenjucar]

Something occurs to me about how we're even defining what "mythical" even means.

Because a lot (re, all) of the ideas in the past few posts aren't anything Id even remotely associate with the label.

When I think mythical, I think punching rivers, cleaving mountains, and splitting atoms with nothing more than a sword arm. I think fights fought in dreams to decide who takes the single, decisive blow in the real world.

I do not think of the gonzo and high-octane nature of an exaggerated version of real world possibility.

There are different kinds of mythic. Feats of skill vs. feats of power vs. feats of physics-defiance, etc.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It is also varied.

Warhammer has

1. Normal humanoid warriors of normal limits geared up with artifact level magic items
2. Humanoid warriors of superior bloodlines and lineages who can perform supernatural feats
3. Humanoid warriors blessed by the gods to perform supernatural feats
4. Humanoid warriors crafted as a race to be of inhuman power
5. Humanoid warriors who win the genetic lottery to be inhumanely strong
6. Humanoid warriors who go through extreme training or tribulations to bypass humanoid limits.

D&D fans are just a bit adverse to diversity when it comes to new ideas entering the base game.

Very much so, yes. A pity. But that's what 3pp and homebrew are for. Less corporate banality and homogitization.

 

[Chaosmancer]

For ranged mythic fighters, I want to see trick shots that get around corners, hit multiple objects, shoot through a line of targets, or pin targets together. I want them to be able to build a ladder of arrows effortlessly, and to be able to save a falling ally with a reaction that pins them to the wall by their clothes.

I'm never certain the best way to shoot around corners. Mechanically a lot of the others are easy to handle, but that one stumps me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Ah yes, no one would ever know that a world with magical elves, magical gnomes, magical dwarves, demonically blooded people, angelically blooded people, magical dragons, magical giants, magical plants, magical items, and people who use magic might actually be a magical world and many if not most people have magical potential. I mean, unless you spelled it out somehow.

For magical humans, as a species? Yes, you need to be explicit, or you're going to keep having these disagreements.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Fair enough. Does the narrative behind the monk provide some connective tissue there, perhaps?

yep, which is a frustration, because if we just merged the monk ki concept and divided out unarmed warriors from armed warriors, then this entire thing wouldn't be happening. Because no one demands reasons for the Shadow monk to non-magically teleport. They just accept it.

 

[Incenjucar]

I'm never certain the best way to shoot around corners. Mechanically a lot of the others are easy to handle, but that one stumps me.

Go golfing and it will make a lot more sense. :3

 

[Chaosmancer]

For magical humans, as a species? Yes, you need to be explicit, or you're going to keep having these disagreements.

Why? Clearly humans have magical potential. It is blatantly obvious in the existence of a myriad of magical classes and subclasses humans can take. You need to willfully ignore that to have this problem.