D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Gammadoodler]

Because humans who don't take those classes don't have magic powers by default. I would argue against magical dwarves and halflings for the same reason. These heritages are not depicted as innately magical in the sense most people mean.

If they have no innate ability to do magic stuff, why should they be allowed to be wizards or bards?

 

[nevin]

For ranged mythic fighters, I want to see trick shots that get around corners, hit multiple objects, shoot through a line of targets, or pin targets together. I want them to be able to build a ladder of arrows effortlessly, and to be able to save a falling ally with a reaction that pins them to the wall by their clothes.

that's only a minor upgrade from sharpshooter. Sharpshooter lets you ignore up to 3/4 cover. One minor upgrade and you ignore cover. Pinning somebody with thier clothes i'd allow a fighter to do if they made all thier attack rolls and depending on circumstance had high enough initiative. A ladder of arrows for a high level warrior would be the same. It's easier to hit a wall than a person who's moving.

 

[nevin]

honestly I don't even see that as mythic. it's the kind of stuff circus performers do. Real world stuff if you train hard enough and don't expect to do it with stone walls. though I suppose mortar would be soft enough to shoot an arrow into.

 

[nevin]

You use range and line of effect, but not line of sight. It would have to be combined with some way of knowing the target is there, but I think that can easily be handled.

I'd say if you see the person run around the corner or jump over the wall you'd have a reasonable chance of hitting them. Maybe give them a bonus to AC. but yeah easy to handle for an expert an educated guess based on the trajectory of the person in combat not an unreasonable thing.

 

[Emberashh]

honestly I don't even see that as mythic. it's the kind of stuff circus performers do. Real world stuff if you train hard enough and don't expect to do it with stone walls. though I suppose mortar would be soft enough to shoot an arrow into.

Real people can climb up cliff faces with nothing but their bare hands and some chalk. Arrows in the wall would be easy play, especially if we assume fantasy arrows made out of fantasy materials could hold up a persons weight. (We should assume)

 

[Remathilis]

I do not know how this connects to anything.

As I explained to @HammerMan we have four spellcasting classes that all cast arcane magic and the primary lore difference is where their magic comes from. Origin, power source, narrative. If you take that away, and opt for a generic "not explained" answer, the primary narrative difference in these classes goes away. Narrative matters. Origin matters.

You could make a generic arcane caster (let's be old school and call it Magic-User) that gets spell slots and little else. It can represent bards, sorcerers, wizards, warlocks, psions, witches, or mysterious users of magic. The DM and player can decide. We can do that and condense magic into one single class with no history or origin, just a bunch of supernatural abilities. But it would be hollow, lifeless, a blank slate.

I don't want that. For magic users or for fighters.

 

[Emberashh]

Even LOTR does fantasy metals beyond anything real.

 

[Gammadoodler]

As I explained to @HammerMan we have four spellcasting classes that all cast arcane magic and the primary lore difference is where their magic comes from. Origin, power source, narrative. If you take that away, and opt for a generic "not explained" answer, the primary narrative difference in these classes goes away. Narrative matters. Origin matters.

You could make a generic arcane caster (let's be old school and call it Magic-User) that gets spell slots and little else. It can represent bards, sorcerers, wizards, warlocks, psions, witches, or mysterious users of magic. The DM and player can decide. We can do that and condense magic into one single class with no history or origin, just a bunch of supernatural abilities. But it would be hollow, lifeless, a blank slate.

I don't want that. For magic users or for fighters.

There is nothing in the existing fighter narrative which implies 'limited to earth-standard capabilities'.

 

[nevin]

Why? Clearly humans have magical potential. It is blatantly obvious in the existence of a myriad of magical classes and subclasses humans can take. You need to willfully ignore that to have this problem.

no humans are muggles magic users are different...... LMAO

Various eastern inspired stories, focusing on cultivation or martial arts training. The serene moment of clarity trope is pretty common in those.

Journey to the West to start with. Every martial arts movie ever. Many myths and stories of Monks running around defeating demons and sending them back to lower realm. (think of demons in oriental myths as Fey) . It's a very Asian thing perfect control of the mind and body grants power over self and one's environment. Not a lot different than the whole church knight mythology. A truely pious knight can take on anything and survive because of his or her purity.

 

[nevin]

There is nothing in the existing fighter narrative which implies 'limited to earth-standard capabilities'.

Right you are. As i said earlier a 20th level fighter could catch a dragon in a cave and kill it singlehandedly with no magical help. Now outside the cave different story if the dragon fights intelligently. Not sure that in any way meshes with reality other than Flying is a huge advantage.