D&D (2024) UA Ranger (Playtest 6)

[doctorbadwolf]

It wouldn't be.

It would be fulfilling the fantasy of a ranger who specializes in large targets like giants or dragons by sniping a giant monster in the head with a special arrow. Paladins don't do that. Paladins charge up to anything evil and smites them.

Like I said before, high level rangers sniping stuff for high damage is more iconic in D&D and other fantasy and had that flavor since the 1975.

That’s what the Hunter is for.

If they were going to do something really new, I’d have them replace hunters mark and the rest of favored enemy with a “bane” system that allows the ranger to learn and use special poisons, tactics, and ritual magics, that are especially effective against a type of creature. I made a whole thread about it. The poisons explicitly ignore resistance to poison, dn might even bypass immunity for creatures that normal poison doesn’t work on.

Trying to fulfill that aspect of the lore with lightning arrow doesn’t even actually get us there.

EDIT: Even WOTC and the community agrees as they tok out Ranged Smites in the latest UA because they predicted that the community associates Ranged Magical Weapon attacks with the Ranger and Potential Paladin Ranged Smites step into Ranger territory

That’s a stretch. They took it out because it ran counter to most of the community’s view of the Paladin.

 

[Minigiant]

That’s what the Hunter is for.

If they were going to do something really new, I’d have them replace hunters mark and the rest of favored enemy with a “bane” system that allows the ranger to learn and use special poisons, tactics, and ritual magics, that are especially effective against a type of creature. I made a whole thread about it. The poisons explicitly ignore resistance to poison, dn might even bypass immunity for creatures that normal poison doesn’t work on.

Trying to fulfill that aspect of the lore with lightning arrow doesn’t even actually get us there

The crux is that WOTC is willing to make 5 new spells for wizards to enhance their flavor. But they won't create any new spells to hone the flavor or rangers since they lack a clear vision of how a ranger looks with a modern audience.

That’s a stretch. They took it out because it ran counter to most of the community’s view of the Paladin.

Jeremy Crawford literally said he did not expect range smite to make it past playlisting because it didn't match the community image of Paladin and it encroached on the community image of Ranger too much to justify staying.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Jeremy Crawford literally said he did not expect range smite to make it past playlisting because it didn't match the community image of Paladin and it encroached on the community image of Ranger too much to justify staying.

And you tried to present it as if it was just that the ranger is the "ranged weapon magic guy", ignoring that much more time was spent talking about the image of the Paladin.

I've seen no evidence, no chatter anywhere, nothing except your wild claims, that supports the idea that the ranger was a significant factor.

 

[DavyGreenwind]

I think that the Ranger's biggest flaw is that their Class features require spell slots. Especially since their spell slots are so limited, and hey, there's actual spells the Ranger wants to use. Hunter's Mark just needs to be a Ranger ability you can use Prof times per day. And the Hunter subclass ability to use Hunter's Mark to analyze foes should be in the Ranger's base class.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think that the Ranger's biggest flaw is that their Class features require spell slots. Especially since their spell slots are so limited, and hey, there's actual spells the Ranger wants to use. Hunter's Mark just needs to be a Ranger ability you can use Prof times per day. And the Hunter subclass ability to use Hunter's Mark to analyze foes should be in the Ranger's base class.

yeah the variant feature i'm building where you have Banes for different creatures has the option to boost effects with spell slots, but that's partly there to support a ranger that isn't casting spells.

 

[Gorck]

I think that the Ranger's biggest flaw is that their Class features require spell slots. Especially since their spell slots are so limited, and hey, there's actual spells the Ranger wants to use. Hunter's Mark just needs to be a Ranger ability you can use Prof times per day. And the Hunter subclass ability to use Hunter's Mark to analyze foes should be in the Ranger's base class.

I'm starting to think that they should just roll the Hunter subclass features into the base class (similar to how some people want the Battle Master to be incorporated into the base Fighter class).

 

[codo]

They can be neat, and the option to use them with melee weapons is interesting as well.

I still want them to just make Rangers a domain spell style chart, since we have Hunter's Mark, Conjure Barrage and Conjure Volley being mistaken for full class features. Then I want Conjure Volley's damage increased a little. It does need it.

I agree. Personally I prefer listing the bonus spells at the level you receive them, but I think giving all of them at once in chart would just go over better if people don't think of them as a full class feature.

I also think that both spells could use a bit of a damage boost. Personally I would boost both to do d10s instead of d8. I would like to the average damage to be at least 30 and 40 damage. The nice thing about class specific spells now is that you can make them more powerful than other spells, because the extra power can come out of the classes power budget instead of the spells power budget.

 

[Emberashh]

I'm starting to think that they should just roll the Hunter subclass features into the base class (similar to how some people want the Battle Master to be incorporated into the base Fighter class).

You could do that with most of the 2014 subclasses tbh. Its like they deliberately took out half the features of the classes and made them subclasses; like they couldn't think of any and just stole from the base class to compensate.

 

[Minigiant]

And you tried to present it as if it was just that the ranger is the "ranged weapon magic guy", ignoring that much more time was spent talking about the image of the Paladin.

I've seen no evidence, no chatter anywhere, nothing except your wild claims, that supports the idea that the ranger was a significant factor.

My point is that WOTC is trying to update the ranger without creating anything despite the fact that they know they screwed up the initial ranger design.

Rather than:

1. diving into the past history of the ranger of previous editions and recreating updated versions of those iconic features
2. look into the analogs of rangers of other high magic fantasy games and converting those abolities
3. think about the ranger parallels in modern media and adapting those elements

They are just reusing what they made in2024 and Tasha's. The ranger had ranged ranged weapon buff spells in older editions. In many video and board games, ranger characters have magic arrows. And in both rangers have a mystical affinity to animals, plants, and earth.

But "Conjure Barrage spell to kill faceless mooks" for every ranger.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I agree. Personally I prefer listing the bonus spells at the level you receive them, but I think giving all of them at once in chart would just go over better if people don't think of them as a full class feature.

I also think that both spells could use a bit of a damage boost. Personally I would boost both to do d10s instead of d8. I would like to the average damage to be at least 30 and 40 damage. The nice thing about class specific spells now is that you can make them more powerful than other spells, because the extra power can come out of the classes power budget instead of the spells power budget.

Barrage did get a damage boost compared to its 2014 incarnation. And it is about where I would want it. 5d8 = 22.5, friendly fire means you can't hit allies, and the area of effect is HUGE. Compared to Fireball which is 28, smaller area, and will hit friendlies.

It could go up ti 6d8 and not be overpowered, but with the friendly fire I'm okay with a little less damage.