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I think the act of optimization is the primary enjoyment a lot of optimizers get out of it. The fact that they have squeezed every bit of oomph out of a character is probably more important than actually getting to do so. The Giant in the Playground boards are full of builds that clearly never actually saw use in an actual game, for instance.
 

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I think the act of optimization is the primary enjoyment a lot of optimizers get out of it. The fact that they have squeezed every bit of oomph out of a character is probably more important than actually getting to do so. The Giant in the Playground boards are full of builds that clearly never actually saw use in an actual game, for instance.

There's certain a certain level where it reaches something that starts to look pathological for actual play. I'm not a "just play whatever strikes my fancy kind of guy" but once it does a reasonable job of representing the competence I'm aiming at (and I'm not interested in playing the incompetent) I'm done; I don't need to squeeze out ever last drop.
 


If you've tried several different retro-clones and still haven't recaptured the magic and nostalgia of "old school D&D," you should just re-play your favorite old-school edition. BECM, AD&D 2E, B/X...all the original books that you know and love are available on DriveThruRPG, in electronic or hardcopy format, for a lot less than the cost of a new retroclone. (And with less of a learning curve.) Play the game you remember! Play the game you love!
 

If you've tried several different retro-clones and still can't seem to recapture that nostalgia of "old school D&D," you should just re-play your favorite old-school edition of the game. The original books that you know and love are available on DriveThruRPG, in electronic or hardcopy format, for a lot less than the cost of a new retroclone. (And with less of a learning curve.) Play the game you remember! Play the game you love!
I don't think that's it. I think you ar experiencing nostalgia, and are not, no matter what ruleset you use, going to recapture that feeling. That feeling wasn't about the rules, it was about you and the times and the people and the things.
 

I think the act of optimization is the primary enjoyment a lot of optimizers get out of it. The fact that they have squeezed every bit of oomph out of a character is probably more important than actually getting to do so. The Giant in the Playground boards are full of builds that clearly never actually saw use in an actual game, for instance.
In a sense, I’m like a bizarro optimizer especially in D&D. I optimize my PCs to be the best versions of themselves, not the best DPR machines. Clarifying: almost regardless of system, I try to make the mechanical character changes over time (i.e. leveling, build point expenditures, etc.) based on what the character would want.

So, for instance, when I played a githzerai monk PC who used a polearm (as a monk weapon), all of the combat improvements made to him over time were centered on using that polearm. Early on, he did more damage than the party’s barbarian. But later, he was more effective at controlling the battlefield (reach weapon + the combat reflexes feat tree), keeping spellcasters safe from melee attackers.

Likewise, I ran a beefy Sorcerer whose obsession with his blue dragon ancestors meant the only attack spells he learned were electrical/lighting based, he channeled spell energy into a lightning breath weapon, used a maul (a weapon he carried as a bouncer in a brothel) and wore scale armor. If we ran into anything immune to his magic, he was swinging that maul in melee.

Those aren’t outliers. That’s core to how I’ve approached the hobby for the past couple of decades.

Hell- I was the same way with M:tG. I never played a “net deck”, but I’m partially responsible for changing the way some others designed their decks. Nobody who knew me wanted to draw me in a tournament.
 

This. SO MUCH THIS. I'd even go so far as to strike "At least 80% of" from your last sentence.
I wouldn’t, though I’m not married to the specific number. There is a certain level that, while not necessary, can make a character concept shine. Also, some classes really are mechanically a bit difficult to get a good experience out of without a little optimization, like the 4e Assassin or the 5e PHB-only Ranger or Monk. They aren’t bad, nor “underpowered”, but it can be quite worthwhile to look at CharOp strategies for them to make them do what you want from them.
I think the act of optimization is the primary enjoyment a lot of optimizers get out of it. The fact that they have squeezed every bit of oomph out of a character is probably more important than actually getting to do so. The Giant in the Playground boards are full of builds that clearly never actually saw use in an actual game, for instance.
This is true. And really, while my view has soured on optimization over time, I still sometimes enjoy a good theorycrafting session. I’m not going to play that character, though. Like @Dannyalcatraz I optimize the character concept, like finding loopholes and rules combos to make the game allow me to really satisfyingly mechanically represent as much of the character’s conceptual meat as possible.
Yes... and there are good ways and bad ways to say that.
How a thing is said does matter. A lot.
Yea.

Related, another UO: being right is less important than acting right. Always. Period.
 

I don't think that's it. I think you ar experiencing nostalgia, and are not, no matter what ruleset you use, going to recapture that feeling. That feeling wasn't about the rules, it was about you and the times and the people and the things.
This is absolutely true, of course...and for more than just games. Sometimes a song is great because it's a well-written piece of art, and sometimes a song is great because you're seventeen. :-)

It's a data point of one, but it worked for me: running through The Keep on the Borderlands or the old Isle of Dread with my buddies, using the original Basic/Expert Rules that we used in high school, was a total nostalgia-bomb for us. We still log on every few weeks to play again over Roll20, even though we're all in different time zones. So I recommend it to any of the "old-school game seekers" who still haven't found what they're looking for.
 
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