Unpopular opinions go here

[Lanefan]

Typically the players, in my experience. I'm a fan of pulp action-adventure and 4E D&D so I present set-piece encounters that are dynamic with multiple types of enemies, alternate win conditions, areas filled with stuff that can potentially be used, environmental factors, etc. I have the monsters do all the cool stuff I wish my players would do. Swing from chandeliers, throw bowls of hot soup, sand in eyes, etc. And still the players simply walk up to an enemy and pound on it until it's dead, then move on to the next one. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Maybe not, but if you can make him swing from a chandelier you win everything.

 

[Reynard]

Why would you ever want to change this type of player? Those are flat-out the best type of players to have in a game, and I say that in all seriousness.

You want fun? Entertainment? Laughter? Twists and turns you never saw coming? Then the pot-stirring player - or better yet, a whole table of them - is exactly what you need.

There is nothing better than a chaos goblin at the table, especially if they are playing a front line fighter or a blaster caster!

 

[CleverNickName]

There is nothing better than a chaos goblin at the table, especially if they are playing a front line fighter or a blaster caster!

Better for whom? Because it really stinks being the only chaos goblin at a table full of Serious Roleplayers.

Ask me how I know.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Popularity is not connected to quality in any meaningful way. Low quality stuff is popular; high quality stuff is niche. There's no real correlation between popularity and quality.

Maybe for you. A lot of people find it boring.

Respectfully, I don’t care.

I said what I said.

 

[Pedantic]

Planning is as much or more fun than execution. The best part of heist and investigation scenarios is the conference room, blackboard sessions. Thereafter, it's equally interesting for a plan to work perfectly and unmitigated success to occur, as it is for a plan to go awry and tactical scrabbling to become necessary.

 

[Reynard]

Better for whom? Because it really stinks being the only chaos goblin at a table full of Serious Roleplayers.

Ask me how I know.

I was speaking from the GM perspective. I am sure the Serious Roleplayers hate it, too.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Okay these points I will reply to.

Typically the players, in my experience. I'm a fan of pulp action-adventure and 4E D&D so I present set-piece encounters that are dynamic with multiple types of enemies, alternate win conditions, areas filled with stuff that can potentially be used, environmental factors, etc. I have the monsters do all the cool stuff I wish my players would do. Swing from chandeliers, throw bowls of hot soup, sand in eyes, etc. And still the players simply walk up to an enemy and pound on it until it's dead, then move on to the next one. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

They really, really don't. Opportunity attacks really discourage moving during combat. Any improving by the players is limited by their desire to min-max. If they have a cantrip they know works they will literally never attempt anything that is riskier or potentially deals less damage. Because improving is suboptimal.

We’ve discussed many times that your experience of nearly all players powergaming doesn’t match other folks’ experience. On top of that, the data wizards has available to them apperently suggests that most players don’t care about optimization.

But for these sort of players, there really is little you can do except homebrew some mechanics incentives. What do they do when the monster gets advantage and/extra damage when they do a cool move? I wonder if they’d respond to a flat out “if you do soemthing that isn’t boring, you’ll get inspiration”?

IME, for any non powergaming players, 5e does incentivize movement and improv.

Also, it’s weird to hear that powergamers are scared of an attack of opportunity. Don’t some of the enemies have scarier reactions? Do they not employ opportunity attack based tactics to protect squishies and let the heavies smash?

Maybe it’s because I use flanking, and the enemies are always angling for better position, so my players have to choose between having advantage or being attacked with advantage.

I will say, and I doubt this is an uncommon opinion, one of 5e’s greatest weaknesses is monster design. Like the first advice I give noob DMs is to just ignore official 5e statblocks and look on DMsGuild and elsewhere for third party.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Planning is as much or more fun than execution. The best part of heist and investigation scenarios is the conference room, blackboard sessions. Thereafter, it's equally interesting for a plan to work perfectly and unmitigated success to occur, as it is for a plan to go awry and tactical scrabbling to become necessary.

I really want to find a way to have the utility of flashbacks and such, and still have the fun of planning. Like, maybe you have to go over the layout, guard rotations, etc, but we hand wave the actual action part of the plan until you’re in it, we go back and forth between the action and “planning” the action. Idk.

 

[Pedantic]

I really want to find a way to have the utility of flashbacks and such, and still have the fun of planning. Like, maybe you have to go over the layout, guard rotations, etc, but we hand wave the actual action part of the plan until you’re in it, we go back and forth between the action and “planning” the action. Idk.

I don't see why you couldn't do both. Just make the flashback a response you pay for and/or a loss condition. The ideal state is that you don't use any, but you have X resource that can be spent on them.

 

[MGibster]

Now switch to the system I currently use. The PC is being a jerk, and one watchman shows up, armed with a shotgun. The player knows that there's a better than even chance the NPC can hit him, and since armor is prohibited in town, there is a chance he'll be killed outright, regardless of his level, and a very good chance he will suffer an injury that will require either scarce medical resources, or an extended period of less-than-full-abilities.

And now I'm picturing a watchman wearing chain and a nasal helmet while sporting a shotgun and I am here for it.