D&D (2024) GenCon 2023 - D&D Rules Revision panel

[mamba]

I think Paizo is doing it right with a return to their "early access" playtest model for Starfinder 2: here's an alpha version of the game. Play it and tell us what you think while we work on the final release.

that is certainly better in that it is not piecemeal and is iterative.

The way WotC does it accomplishes two things imo

1) prevent them from accidentally creating another 4e, where the expectations of the target audience were so far from what they built, without them ever realizing it. This is an intended outcome of the playtest.

2) prevent WotC from making more than slight tweaks to 5e. This is the unintended consequence that results from their methodology

 

[Parmandur]

that is certainly better in that it is not piecemeal and is iterative.

The way WotC does it accomplishes two things imo

1) prevent them from accidentally creating another 4e, where the expectations of the target audience were so far from what they built, without them ever realizing it. This is an intended outcome of the playtest.

2) prevent WotC from making more than slight tweaks to 5e. This is the unintended consequence that results from their methodology

The problem with 1 was that when they built 4E...they literally had no idea how people were already playing D&D. Per Mike Mearla, they only found that out after 4E had failed when they started collecting data.

I would phrase 2 as "prevent WotC from making any unnecessary changes to 5E." The process is working as designed.

 

[Incenjucar]

The species stuff has been pretty good, at least.

 

[Mistwell]

2) prevent WotC from making more than slight tweaks to 5e. This is the unintended consequence that results from their methodology

I think it was intended. They said from the beginning it wasn't even really a new edition, and would be backwards compatible and that 5e remains evergreen. We just didn't believe them. Then they came out with experimental stuff which seemed to demonstrate they were not going to do that, only for it to turn out they were doing that all along. So, is it an unintended consequence if that was the plan and they told us up front that was the plan?

 

[mamba]

The problem with 1 was that when they built 4E...they literally had no idea how people were already playing D&D. Per Mike Mearla, they only found that out after 4E had failed when they started collecting data.

pretty much what I said 1) is trying to prevent

I would phrase 2 as "prevent WotC from making any unnecjabges to 5E."

I cannot parse this, I assume something along the lines of ‘unpopular changes’. I agree, so I guess I should have had 3 items, because I will not budge on my 2

 

[Parmandur]

pretty much what I said 1) is trying to prevent


I cannot parse this, I assume something along the lines of ‘unpopular changes’. I agree, so I guess I should have had 3 items, because I will not budge on my 2

"Unnecessary changes."

 

[mamba]

I think it was intended

I think it nailed them to the floor more than expected / good, esp because of the ‘we do not iterate, we throw away’ approach, without that I’d say it would work decently (I still think their 1 to 5 rating approach is not working because what they say they do and what it results in / they are actually doing are two different things, my 2 yes/no questions imo would be better)

 

[mamba]

"Unnecessary changes."

I’d agree with unpopular, not sure I do with unnecessary. Hard to gauge what is unnecessary

 

[Parmandur]

I’d agree with unpopular, not sure I do with unnecessary. Hard to gauge what is unnecessary

For a commercial game, it's easy. It is what is popular.

 

[FrogReaver]

Because it's the only subclass available to the fighter on DNDBeyond for those using the free version of DNDBeyond. That's the beginning and end of that mystery. WOTC has mentioned they filter data before analyzing it, and I am willing to bet they filter the "didn't ever level or change that PC after creation" builds like so many of those Champion builds on there.

Beyond Data in general is terrible for comparing material from different sourcebooks, goes for anything included in the SRD vs the PHB only options as well.

Though one can make comparisons from a given sourcebook and the data should be fairly accurate.

Here's some data showing just the PHB Fighter subclasses that have taken feats. Having a non-grappler feat rules out it's only a SRD class. In short there were alot of people that either made or modified champions after getting at least PHB access on Beyond.