D&D (2024) GenCon 2023 - D&D Rules Revision panel

I am not sure however if more time would have helped. More time always helps.
sounds like you do know after all ;)

Being short of time makes you focus on what is important.
assuming you run a tight ship, not sure I trust WotC there from what I have seen so far, to me it looks more like ‘they did not love it? throw it away, we keep what we have, even though our data tells us it is bad’
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

But that's the point.

The Champion fighter is the most popular subclass on DNDB but has a 54% satisfactory?
How is something so popular but disliked by so many who play it?
Because it's the only subclass available to the fighter on DNDBeyond for those using the free version of DNDBeyond. That's the beginning and end of that mystery. WOTC has mentioned they filter data before analyzing it, and I am willing to bet they filter the "didn't ever level or change that PC after creation" builds like so many of those Champion builds on there.
 


70% is a c grade, barely passing: 69% means a D and is not enough to pass a class. 90% would be A. WotC is only asking options to be C level in reception, not A.
Assessment is a particular interest of mine, and I think that it is generally misunderstood and misused. You can't just attach a percentage from a survey like this to a letter grade as if that has some sort of meaning without any context. For example, it's not like, say, a math test, where 100% is an achievable outcome - you will never score 100% on a complicated customer satisfaction survey.

Grading is normally used to assess individual students in a particular context. Maybe you are diagnosing their current skill level (diagnostic). Maybe your are assessing their current progress (formative). Maybe you are assessing their mastery (summative). Here, we're not assessing individual achievement, we are assessing popular response to various proposals - basically emotional satisfaction among a huge population. Totally apples and oranges.

On top of that, percentages are generally thought poorly of as assessment measures, and in any event the association of particular percentages with particular numbers or letter grades is highly culturally dependent. For example, on summative assessments my IB school uses rubrics to identify specific skills in each subject, with students earning a final grade of between 1-7; everything but a 1 is a "pass." Unless you are writing your Extended Essay or taking Theory of Knowledge, both of which I teach, which do use letter grades, E-A, and a D or better is a pass (and a grade of D will earn you 75% as a university entrance equivalent at any North American university, a C gets you an 89, a B=94, and an A=100). Conversely, public schools in BC use a combination of rubrics, percentages, and letter grades, but they don't look anything like the numbers you've associated above. Here, anything from a P and up is a pass, and Ps begin at 50%, Cs at 55%, Bs at 70, and As at 85. Point being that stating that scoring 70% on any particular assessment is a C just doesn't track. At all.

You'll basically find as many different grading systems as there are assessment regimes. So the sentence
WotC is only asking options to be C level in reception, not A.
is completely meaningless.

My impression, from WotC's public statements, is that given the typical range of responses they consider 70% to be very good and 80% to be excellent. If you had to put that in terms familiar to a typical American student, that would equate to 70% being a B and 80% being an A. Sort of - it would be a hugely broad comparison and still not very meaningful. These are just completely different assessment tasks.
 
Last edited:

Assessment is a particular interest of mine, and I think that it is generally misunderstood and misused. You can't just attach a percentage from a survey like this to a letter grade as if that has some sort of meaning without any context. For example, it's not like, say, a math test, where 100% is an achievable outcome - you will never score 100% on a complicated customer satisfaction survey.

Grading is normally used to assess individual students in a particular context. Maybe you are diagnosing their current skill level (diagnostic). Maybe your are assessing their current progress (formative). Maybe you are assessing their mastery (summative). Here, we're not assessing individual achievement, we are assessing popular response to various proposals - basically emotional satisfaction among a huge population. Totally apples and oranges.

On top of that, percentages are generally thought poorly of as assessment measures, and in any event the association of particular percentages with particular numbers or letter grades is highly culturally dependent. For example, on summative assessments my IB school uses rubrics to identify specific skills in each subject, with students earning a final grade of between 1-7; everything but a 1 is a "pass." Unless you are writing your Extended Essay or taking Theory of Knowledge, both of which I teach, which do use letter grades, E-A, and a D or better is a pass (and a grade of D will earn you 75% as a university entrance equivalent at any North American university, a C gets you an 89, a B=94, and an A=100). Conversely, public schools in BC use a combination of rubrics, percentages, and letter grades, but they don't look anything like the numbers you've associated above. Here, anything from a P and up is a pass, and Ps begin at 50%, Cs at 55%, Bs at 70, and As at 85. Point being that stating that scoring 70% on any particular assessment is a C just doesn't track. At all.

You'll basically find as many different grading systems as there are assessment regimes. So the sentence

is completely meaningless.

My impression, from WotC's public statements, is that given the typical range of responses they consider 70% to be very good and 80% to be excellent. If you had to put that in terms familiar to a typical American student, that would equate to 70% being a B and 80% being an A. Sort of - it would be a hugely broad comparison and still not very meaningful. These are just completely different assessment tasks.
C's get degrees.
 




There is a lot of complaining about the playtest. I’m just happy we get one! I don’t remember them for 2e, 3e, or 4e. Did I miss something?
Not that I am aware of, but right now I am so unimpressed that I am not sure that not having one would not have been better. At least then the designers could actually do their job and look for good designs instead of trying to thread the needle of not getting stuff shot down while still making relevant changes, and would not have to do so at a snail's pace.
 
Last edited:

Not that I am aware of, but right now I am so unimpressed that I am not sure that not having one would not have been better. At least then the designers could actually do their job and look for good designs instead of trying to thread the needle of not getting stuff shot down while still making relevant changes, and would not have to do so at a snail's pace.
I think Paizo is doing it right with a return to their "early access" playtest model for Starfinder 2: here's an alpha version of the game. Play it and tell us what you think while we work on the final release.

It would be nice if they gave early adopters a discount on the final product, tho.
 

Remove ads

Top