D&D General What is player agency to you?

[mamba]

Yes, it illustrates that people can craft vague hypotheticals that basically force the answer they want. Imagine that!

that is not the point and no answer was forced. They could simply have said 'in this case it is impossible, but features are never that absolute in the game', instead they chose to make it work when there was no way for it to, proving the point

Hey, you’re the one who doesn’t allow ridiculous circumstances in your game, right? Like characters going to a lifeless plane (for some reason) and expecting to find life there (again, for some reason). Is that the kind of scenario you present in play?

that is not the issue either, the point you are wrong about is that it was not a useless hypothetical, it illustrated the above point, just like it was meant to

 

[FrogReaver]

My very first response to you was to play how you like. If you were so inclined as to run it how I would do it, then find a way that isn’t ridiculous for you.

Yes. I was asking 'if i wanted to run it how you would but then ran into a situation where there wasn't a way that wasn't ridiculous for me.'

If you can’t do that, then do whatever it is you need to. Deny the ability, agree to something ludicrous, I don’t care.

Sounds like you just want to be done with this tangent, so let's agree to just be done with it.

 

[mamba]

Possibly, maybe I'm looking for some other term that may be less loaded, possibly something to do with degrees of chance / likelihood

decent chance of success vs very slight one? you may have to bite the bullet on that one, it is saying basically the same thing in a different way

 

[mamba]

My very first response to you was to play how you like. If you were so inclined as to run it how I would do it, then find a way that isn’t ridiculous for you.

which was you avoiding an actual answer, and still is

 

[Micah Sweet]

Let me ask you this - Does the ability not work because there really is no way to arrange a meeting/find food, whatever?

Or does the ability not work because you have a specific way the group must arrange the meeting/find food, whatever?

Because the noble in question is not taking visitors, or has a personal beef with the PC, or the PC is a wanted fugitive, etc. There could any number of reasons, and I will say that most of the time an ability like that should work. I just allow for the possibility that it might not, because my top priority is maintaining the integrity of the world, and sometimes you can't always get what you want (as the philosopher Jagger is won't to say).

 

[hawkeyefan]

Both, actually. Separate conversation with a goal, separate reaction roll.

See now that's a little different in that it seems unconcerned about the “impossibility” of an audience. To me, this renders the background feature pretty much entirely useless, except perhaps if we say that a local noble would only meet with other nobility.

But at least this method fits with a standard type of gaming procedure where we go to the dice to see how it goes.

My point all along is that I want to see the audience… that’s the scene with potential consequence. So I don’t mind an ability getting us right to that scene.

Think of it along the lines of not putting essential stuff behind a secret door.

 

[mamba]

Let me ask you this - Does the ability not work because there really is no way to arrange a meeting/find food, whatever?

somewhere between 'really no way' and' so unlikely that I consider granting it cheating'. It most likely is the latter however

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then don't allow the feature - simple. Or as a player don't take it.

My preferred games don't have those kind of features, but I also run 5e, so compromises have to be made.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Because there seems to be a refusal to accept that the people advocating for the features being useful ARE NOT advocating for some narrative magic beat the DM into submission feature.

Always works is an extreme version of being useful.

 

[Mort]

Because the noble in question is not taking visitors, or has a personal beef with the PC, or the PC is a wanted fugitive, etc. There could any number of reasons, and I will say that most of the time an ability like that should work. I just allow for the possibility that it might not, because my top priority is maintaining the integrity of the world, and sometimes you can't always get what you want (as the philosopher Jagger is won't to say).

But the ability says "a local noble" not "a specific noble"

So there's no guarantee of a specific noble anyway. If the noble in question doesn't want to meet them, the ability doesn't force it in any way.