D&D (2024) Class spell lists and pact magic are back!

[tetrasodium]

10-20% difference is a HUGE difference in a survey sampling this large. MASSIVE.

I'm going to simplify what failing with close to 60% or 70% means. It's not massive when you are talking about a veto by 3 in 10. jumping it to a veto by 4 in 10 is still a terrible example tyranny of a minority that has no business calling itself majority.

 

[Mistwell]

I'm going to simplify what failing with close to 60% or 70% means. It's not massive when you are talking about a veto by 3 in 10. jumping it to a veto by 4 in 10 is still a terrible example tyranny of a minority that has no business calling itself majority.

LOLwut? The person I was replying to said 10-20% swing. They approve at 70%. So they were saying 50%-60%. That's 4,000 to 8,000 people. That's not a tyranny of the minority. It's literally a tyranny of the majority! You want it to be LESS REPRESENTATIVE of public opinion, not more!

Nor is it a "veto." It's the exact opposite - it's you trying to veto what the majority wants. If you take a poll and tell people "Do you want A or B" and 28,000 people vote thing A (70%) and 12,000 vote thing B (30%), and you advocate they should go with thing B anyway, THAT is the veto tyranny of the minority!

Every time they reject something and propose a different version, the version they end up with gets over 70% of the vote. That's why they are doing this. You are advocating we go with the thing fewer people liked, while somehow getting it twisted calling it a tyranny of the minority for going with the thing people liked more.

 

[Maxperson]

It is simpler to have one system than 2.

I suppose 1+1 is easier than 1+1 and 1+2, but I have no sympathy for people that can't handle two such incredibly simple things. Simplifying for the sake of simplifying isn't necessary or inherently good/better.

 

[tetrasodium]

majority

31%-41% is not a "majority".

 

[Maxperson]

If it uses spell slots to power, it should be a spell. Simple.

"COMBAT WILD SHAPE
When you choose this circle at 2nd level, you gain the ability to use Wild Shape on your turn as a bonus action, rather than as an action.
Additionally, while you are transformed by Wild Shape, you can use a bonus action to expend one spell slot to regain 1d8 hit points per level of the spell slot expended"

"PRIMEVAL AWARENESS
Beginning at 3rd level, you can use your action and expend one ranger spell slot to focus your awareness on the region around you..."

"FLEXIBLE CASTING
You can use your sorcery points to gain additional spell slots, or sacrifice spell slots to gain additional sorcery points."

"ELDRITCH SMITE
Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature Once per turn when you hit a creature with your pact weapon, you can expend a warlock spell slot to deal an extra 1d8 force damage to the target, plus another 1d8 per level of the spell slot, and you can knock the target prone if it is Huge or smaller."

"UNIVERSAL SPEECH
6th-level College of Eloquence feature You have gained the ability to make your speech intelligible to any creature. As an action, choose one or more creatures within 60 feet of you, up to a number equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). The
chosen creatures can magically understand you, regardless of the language you speak, for 1 hour. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest, unless you expend a spell slot to use it again."

"LIVING LEGEND
20th- level Oath of Glory feature You can empower yourself with the legends-whether true or exaggerated-of your great deeds. As a bonus action, you gain the following benefits for 1 minute:...

Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest, unless you expend a 5th-level spell slot to use it again."

"SONG OF DEFENSE
Beginning at 10th level, you can direct your magic to absorb damage while your Bladesong is active. When you take damage, you can use your reaction to expend one spell slot and reduce that damage to you by an amount equal to five times the spell slot's level."

"EXPERIM ENTAL ELIXIR
3rd-level Alchemist feature

You can create additional experimental elixirs by expending a spell slot of 1st level or higher for each one."

(More such abilities.)

How many of these are now spells?

 

[Mistwell]

31%-41% is not a "majority".

What on earth are you talking about? They're not saying "Go" on 31-41% they're saying "Go" on 70%+. This isn't happening in a vacuum. Every time something is rejected for not reaching that high, the follow up gets to that high or more - that's a super majority vote in favor that you're calling a minority. You keep acting like the follow-up didn't happen and get higher approval.

 

[Horwath]

Its a time thing. There are only about 10 total playtests, and a lot to cover.

Then throw out a playtest document every 2 or 3 weeks.
with all the classes and spells and feats.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

"COMBAT WILD SHAPE
When you choose this circle at 2nd level, you gain the ability to use Wild Shape on your turn as a bonus action, rather than as an action.
Additionally, while you are transformed by Wild Shape, you can use a bonus action to expend one spell slot to regain 1d8 hit points per level of the spell slot expended" In the playtest, Moon Druids can cast Abjuration spells instead. So this is an example of better, more interesting design in my opinion.

"PRIMEVAL AWARENESS
Beginning at 3rd level, you can use your action and expend one ranger spell slot to focus your awareness on the region around you..." Could have benefitted from being better designed as a 1st level Ranger Divination spell. Was my least favorite ability and I'm glad that it was left out of the playtest Ranger.

"FLEXIBLE CASTING
You can use your sorcery points to gain additional spell slots, or sacrifice spell slots to gain additional sorcery points." A bonus action mechanic designed to enable spellcasting on the same turn. Doesn't make sense as a spell.

"ELDRITCH SMITE
Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature Once per turn when you hit a creature with your pact weapon, you can expend a warlock spell slot to deal an extra 1d8 force damage to the target, plus another 1d8 per level of the spell slot, and you can knock the target prone if it is Huge or smaller." No action, not a spell.

"UNIVERSAL SPEECH
6th-level College of Eloquence feature You have gained the ability to make your speech intelligible to any creature. As an action, choose one or more creatures within 60 feet of you, up to a number equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). The
chosen creatures can magically understand you, regardless of the language you speak, for 1 hour. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest, unless you expend a spell slot to use it again." Only if Subclasses start getting their own spells.

"LIVING LEGEND
20th- level Oath of Glory feature You can empower yourself with the legends-whether true or exaggerated-of your great deeds. As a bonus action, you gain the following benefits for 1 minute:...

Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest, unless you expend a 5th-level spell slot to use it again." Only if Subclasses start getting their own spells.

"SONG OF DEFENSE
Beginning at 10th level, you can direct your magic to absorb damage while your Bladesong is active. When you take damage, you can use your reaction to expend one spell slot and reduce that damage to you by an amount equal to five times the spell slot's level." Needs an activatable class ability to use. Too limited as a spell.

"EXPERIM ENTAL ELIXIR
3rd-level Alchemist feature

You can create additional experimental elixirs by expending a spell slot of 1st level or higher for each one." Only if Subclasses start getting their own spells.

(More such abilities.)

How many of these are now spells?

Exceptions abound. For instance, if the ability does not use an action, or is designed as a bonus action to enable casting of a spell on the same turn, or requires a special class ability or subclass to use, those make less sense.

The primary casters in the playtest show examples of class abilities being unique spells for the class. If the ability benefits from the structure of a spell, and is intended to use the spell slot system, and it makes sense to do so, why note just use the existing system.

 

[mamba]

You keep acting like the follow-up didn't happen and get higher approval.

frequently there was no follow-up, it just got dropped without anyone knowing this beforehand, even though that is relevant information for the vote

 

[mamba]

Confidence in the testing approach appears to be "things I believe to be true about the game and fan preference if it turns out to be true in the results?"

not at all, I have been explaining all the things I find wrong with it in another thread. The results they produce have nothing to do with that, it is entirely the methodology I disagree with. That I believe it also is responsible for this stagnation and killing proposals I like is just the icing on the cake.

I would find the approach equally flawed if my choice made it through. Bad methodology does not improve based on the results it produces.

All those comments appear to be saying, "I am really irritated with the democratic method they're using

I am, because I consider it broken, not because of the results it produces. I do not like the results either, but that is a separate issue, not the reason for my dislike of the methodology.

You can argue that this makes me like it even less, but in the end I would have the exact same objections to it either way.