D&D (2024) Class spell lists and pact magic are back!

[UngeheuerLich]

yeah, arguing from the result to the approach is a fallacy. My amulet of preventing bear attacks is working because I have never been attacked by bears... It is successful despite the playtest approach, not because of it.

If the approach worked we would not have 2014 subclasses getting 24% or 25% approval ratings. That is exactly what it is meant to prevent after all

I think this conclusion is at least as wrong as the one you try to refute.

 

[Chaosmancer]

you could also say the thing that is even less preferred is staying in the game despite being less popular


If I have 5 kids wanting one thing, 3 wanting something else and two wanting something different yet again, do they all not get lunch? Or do I have to search for other options... throwing things out is not searching for better options

If you have 50%, 30% and 20%... then nothing hits 70% and you keep trying. That's the system at work.

I am blaming WotC, they created an idiotic process. What gives you the impression that I am blaming the voters?

Every process is idiotic. Every process has flaws that could be made better if you just did X. That's why there are hundreds of competing models for how to poll public opinion. Your way of just offering the same thing, just tweaked, is equally flawed if the group of people DON'T WANT THAT.

 

[Nightfly]

Coming in twelve pages late with my two proverbial cents.

Considering that 5e is the most popular edition of D&D by a very, very wide margin, why would anyone expect that the new revision would make radical changes? Why would anyone even want that? If you want 5e changed that much, then 5e might not be for you. Which is fine! Check out Pathfinder or Shadowdark or 13th Age or Dungeon Crawl Classics. They all have their virtues. I'm a 5e fanboy, but I've play other systems and like those too. If 5e isn't your groove, that's cool.

But 5e is going to stay 5e, just with some much-needed tweaks and polishing. Good. 5e is the best iteration of D&D ever and it's been a juggernaut for a decade. People aren't ready for 6e, and Wizards can't be ready to kill their golden goose, so it shouldn't be a surprise that the silver anniversary edition will not be 6e. Nothing too radical is going to happen. Nor should it. I'm surprised that people expected otherwise.

 

[mamba]

I think this conclusion is at least as wrong as the one you try to refute.

you are free to think that, at a minimum my argument actually is one

 

[mamba]

Every process is idiotic. Every process has flaws that could be made better if you just did X.

something being able to be improved is a far cry from something being idiotic

That's why there are hundreds of competing models for how to poll public opinion. Your way of just offering the same thing, just tweaked, is equally flawed if the group of people DON'T WANT THAT.

I have no idea what that even means, who does not want what? If the voters do not want the change? What does that have to do with the method of polling being flawed?

Mine is less flawed, because they can better express their actual intent. No matter which intent they are expressing.

 

[mamba]

Considering that 5e is the most popular edition of D&D by a very, very wide margin, why would anyone expect that the new revision would make radical changes?

I do not consider any changes that were playtested radical, do you?

Why would anyone even want that? If you want 5e changed that much, then 5e might not be for you.

See above, none were, so us wanting them does not equal us wanting radical changes

 

[Umbran]

not when something is liked better by 60% of people and thrown out because of that being less than 70%

Yes, when that too. More people chose it. That's kind of the point - to find the option that more people like.

This "killed" thing reads like an attempt to use loaded language to create a victim in what is really just a choice to try to please the most users.

 

[tetrasodium]

Yes, when that too. More people chose it. That's kind of the point - to find the option that more people like.

This "killed" thing reads like an attempt to use loaded language to create a victim in what is really just a choice to try to please the most users.

You don't have the data to make that claim. Percentage shows proportion of a whole nut the size of the whole. Percentage of two different data sets only shows the proportion of each in isolation.

The surveys are done weeks or months apart with 1to 5 scoring . It's not been even vaguely described how the 1-5 votes are weighted or if it's just a neutral null vote with two functionaliy identical good/bad options. The former is not too different than the Pepsi challenge weeks or months apart between cola A & cola B with 1-5 ratings each time without ever actually asking if they like a or b better at a time allowing an actual A/B preference to be determined. The latter would be very strange and unlikely enough that the weighting gets put front and center in the spotlight where a negative vote on a given question is worth 2.33 positive votes on it..

If I ask my d&d group what the best pizza is and get 50% pepperoni with 25% Hawaiian/ meat lovers and ask my coworkers getting 75%veggie lovers 25%bbq chicken you have absolutely no way to know which pizza had the most people who thought it was best.because the sample sizes are not revealed to make that determination

 

[mamba]

Yes, when that too. More people chose it. That's kind of the point - to find the option that more people like.

I don’t follow, the 60% is not enough to clear the 70% threshold, so it gets rejected. In other words the 40% prevented the 60% majority opinion.

What the majority chose did not make it in. You found the option, you did not use it…

 

[UngeheuerLich]

you are free to think that, at a minimum my argument actually is one

Not really. It is hard to prove that D&D is successful despite the playtest. It is hard to prove that it is successful because of the playtest. We just know that there is a correllation between playtest and success if you compare 4e and 5e.
If there is also a causation or not is always hard to prove.