D&D (2024) Class spell lists and pact magic are back!

[Maxperson]

Knowing how WotC conducts their polls, I don’t think it’s ever in one’s interest to vote “dissatisfied” on something they want to see improved. Like I said, I think the practical way to engage with these surveys is to vote “very satisfied” if you want something to remain as-is, “satisfied” if you like it but think it needs improvement, and “very dissatisfied” if you don’t like it and don’t want it, with the “dissatisfied” not really having any utility.

I disagree. Satisfied = approval and would be counted towards the 70% mark. If you want it improved, you cannot contribute towards keeping it the same by voting approval.

 

[Maxperson]

The 3.x shift didn't matter in play though. Even the 3.x sorcerer was subject to asf when casting spells in armor without using still spell or something. Even if there was some sort sorcerer skip needing a component pouch element there were very very few spells that had one without the other so casters tended to just equip as if all spells were vsm and gish builds tended to assume that all but these spells were off limits

I'm going to disagree here. There were several instances in the groups I ran or played in where the wizard didn't have access to his spellbook, but the sorcerer blithely continued on unhindered. Sorcerers were also more beastly in combat, since they always had a combat spell for a given level and a ton more slots to use them.

Even with the same disability regarding armor, tt did matter in play.

 

[Weiley31]

I will say this, I did like the Warlock Cantrips in Playtest 5, but I still prefer how they are now, in regard to Pact Boons.

I'll probably use the Packet 5 Warlock Cantrips as Patron rewards when a Warlock PC reaches a certain amount of Piety points when I use the Piety system from Theros for Warlocks and their Patrons.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

ok, yes, but it becomes a question of which one you like better, because there can be only one (template or animal wildshape), and whichever one loses is out. So the question that needs answering is which one you like better, esp. since WotC threw out the ‘loser’ without warning.

If they iterated instead, you could afford to answer what they pretended they were asking and see if you like their proposal better next time.

The saving grace is that ‘I like’ and ‘I prefer’ are usually correlated, so they can still land on the right conclusion, but you are no longer telling them you want it thrown out or iterated on directly


I guess that is my problem with it. They ask ‘how do you like it’, but then act as if I answered ‘which one do you like better’ by throwing it out if I picked too low, even if I wanted them to take a second shot

I would prefer if I could tell them which of the two I meant instead of them drawing conclusions . A dissatisfied’ to me means ‘please improve this’, a ‘satisfied’ means ‘we are good to go’, a ‘very satisfied’ means ‘this is perfect, don’t you dare change it’

I would like that option too. But you are still drawing false conclusions.

They don't throw out the "loser" without warning. There is no loser in that sense. If there is no clear preference they keep the old one, because otherwise it would bear a too big risk of losing people who are happy already.

Take new coke as an example. Probably many of their testers liked the new coke better. But they probably did not take into account, that the people who liked coke as it was did not like the new one and were very voicy about it.
So that was a lecture in being very careful about fixing something that is not broken. Or never changing a running system.

 

[mamba]

I disagree. Satisfied = approval and would be counted towards the 70% mark. If you want it improved, you cannot contribute towards keeping it the same by voting approval.

that was my point about satisfied =/= needs improvement

The poll requires you to select that if you want an iteration, but it makes no logical sense (from the meaning of the word) to do so when that is what you want

 

[Kobold Stew]

Knowing how WotC conducts their polls, I don’t think it’s ever in one’s interest to vote “dissatisfied” on something they want to see improved. Like I said, I think the practical way to engage with these surveys is to vote “very satisfied” if you want something to remain as-is, “satisfied” if you like it but think it needs improvement, and “very dissatisfied” if you don’t like it and don’t want it, with the “dissatisfied” not really having any utility.

This is probably true, and good advice.

 

[mamba]

They don't throw out the "loser" without warning. There is no loser in that sense. If there is no clear preference they keep the old one, because otherwise it would bear a too big risk of losing people who are happy already.

there clearly is a loser, as the proposal did not make it in and everyone preferring it has to live with whatever the alternative is. How much of a difference that makes for an individual is a separate question

I guess the question is at which point do you consider it to be clear and how accurate is your survey at capturing that. My problem is more with the second point than the first.

Take new coke as an example. Probably many of their testers liked the new coke better. But they probably did not take into account, that the people who liked coke as it was did not like the new one and were very voicy about it.

nah, that was a concerted effort to badmouth it that succeeded. It is not at all the same as we have here. It was a lesson in marketing and psychology. It also is not relevant, so I’ll leave it at that

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Nah, that was a concerted effort to badmouth it that succeeded. It is not at all the same as we have here. It also is not relevant, so I’ll leave it at that

What do you expect from people who get their favourite toy taken away.

So if 50% like the old and hate the new take on the class and 50% hated the old one and wouls love the new, keeping the old one will be the better choice, because those 50% are the one playing it currently and would be way more negatively impacted as the ones who might or might not play the new version they like more.

So it is a sane choice to have a higher margin.

But you won't be swayed by anything I say and so I won't answer any further to your posts about that specific topic.

 

[mamba]

What do you expect from people who get their favourite toy taken away.

the guy starting the whole thing could not even tell the difference if I remember correctly

So if 50% like the old and hate the new take on the class and 50% hated the old one and wouls love the new, keeping the old one will be the better choice, because those 50% are the one playing it currently and would be way more negatively impacted as the ones who might or might not play the new version they like more.

that is why I said a while ago at 50/50 keep it, at 60/40 iterate. That is fine, my problem is that I am not that confident in the accuracy of those percentages

 

[Umbran]

if you have something useful to contribute...

Mod Note:
Of course, this post you made isn't exactly useful either.

So, maybe apply your own advice, and if you find folks aren't useful to you, you could could just not respond, disengage, or otherwise just ignore them.