D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

[Emberashh]

I dunno. It gets a ton of hype from MCDM, one of the largest sources of fun promotion of RPG things out there besides WotC themselves or GenCon. And there were 23 tickets sold at GenCon. Not tables, tickets, individual seats.

Maybe that has more to do with availability but I'd think a newer generation would embrace PDF and POD more and the original character builder is still out there, no idea if it's still getting maintained but I'd bet it is and works on current hardware/OS.

Well part of the issue is that now its just old and has the inaccessibility of being old.

That and its still a TTRPG. It suffers as much as any other game for the want of a GM to run it, and thats typically the one single biggest barrier to getting people suckered in.

 

[darjr]

Well part of the issue is that now its just old and has the inaccessibility of being old.

That and its still a TTRPG. It suffers as much as any other game for the want of a GM to run it, and thats typically the one single biggest barrier to getting people suckered in.

AD&D is just old. Really old. Same with 3rd edition. Those are,I think one could argue, worse games. I'd rather play either though. (unless it's Gamma World D&D 4e) Both of them got at least ten times as many tickets. AD&D almost double that.

 

[darjr]

Well I found out something fun. Left me all blinky blinky

 

[Micah Sweet]

AD&D is just old. Really old. Same with 3rd edition. Those are,I think one could argue, worse games. I'd rather play either though. (unless it's Gamma World D&D 4e) Both of them got at least ten times as many tickets. AD&D almost double that.

One could argue it, but I sure wouldn't.

 

[Emberashh]

AD&D is just old. Really old. Same with 3rd edition. Those are,I think one could argue, worse games. I'd rather play either though. (unless it's Gamma World D&D 4e) Both of them got at least ten times as many tickets. AD&D almost double that.

Sure, but historically, both games also had a dedicated fanbase that kept those games alive as part of a zeitgeist (those being OSR and the Pathfinder heritage respectively).

4e never got that, or at least not in the same form, and its arguable its time is still nigh given moves a number of creators are taking to move towards or build off of its design.

Older Pokemon games are also still just old, but theres a healthy fanbase keeping them alive 20 years later. The Rom scene for Pokemon is still as vibrant as can be and, somewhat paralleling the OSR, older games are often a vessel for new iterations simply because its relatively simple to see an idea materialized to its conclusion.

 

[darjr]

Sure, but historically, both games also had a dedicated fanbase that kept those games alive as part of a zeitgeist (those being OSR and the Pathfinder heritage respectively).

4e never got that, or at least not in the same form, and its arguable its time is still nigh given moves a number of creators are taking to move towards or build off of its design.

Older Pokemon games are also still just old, but theres a healthy fanbase keeping them alive 20 years later. The Rom scene for Pokemon is still as vibrant as can be and, somewhat paralleling the OSR, older games are often a vessel for new iterations simply because its relatively simple to see an idea materialized to its conclusion.

Are you going to tell me with a straight face that 4e doesn't have it's super dedicated fans?

Heck even I've argued, to wotc people, that they should do an OGL style SRD for 4e, and since the debacle, I've argued they do one for CC.

 

[Alzrius]

AD&D is just old. Really old. Same with 3rd edition. Those are,I think one could argue, worse games.

I disagree.

 

[darjr]

I disagree.

I said one could argue. Note I'd rather play them then 4e. (unless it's Gammworld 4e cause I'm just that kinda goofy weird).

Please please please don't quote me out of context.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Are you going to tell me with a straight face that 4e doesn't have it's super dedicated fans?

Heck even I've argued, to wotc people, that they should do an OGL style SRD for 4e, and since the debacle, I've argued they do one for CC.

4e's fans are very vocal in my opinion.

 

[Emberashh]

Are you going to tell me with a straight face that 4e doesn't have it's super dedicated fans?

Not to the degree ADND and 3e did and do.

The very question of if 4e was even liked at all speaks to that reality, no matter which side of the debate you're on.