D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[jasper]

Fair enough. But, there's a difference between "I don't like these rules and wish they had more complex ones" and "This product is unplayable because it lacks key mechanics". The Spelljammer ship rules are essentially exactly the same as the Ghosts of Saltmarsh ones. Since nobody every claims that GoS lacks key mechanics, I don't think it's particularly fair or useful to claim that Spelljammer does lack them.

Again, as someone who has stuggled to do ship combat in D&D for three or four editions now, I can see the appeal of the Spelljammer rules. Players have absolutely zero interest in the level of detail that I want. It really is a problem.

Why should a spelljammer DM have to buy Ghost of Saltmarsh for ship mechanics? Part of Appendix A of GoS should have been ported over and upgraded for Jammer. Heck they introduced a lot but included no price lists at all.
WOTC seems to say, Lore Light, Info Light. Go to other publishers or the past for details.

 

[Parmandur]

Why should a spelljammer DM have to buy Ghost of Saltmarsh for ship mechanics? Part of Appendix A of GoS should have been ported over and upgraded for Jammer. Heck they introduced a lot but included no price lists at all.
WOTC seems to say, Lore Light, Info Light. Go to other publishers or the past for details.

Spelljammer has ship and combat mechanics.

 

[jasper]

Spelljammer has ship and combat mechanics.

Yes. Close and board. What does the spelljammer do in spelljammer combat? What are the captain duties? What are the quartmaster duties? Why does each ship have nearly have the same ACME weapon systems?
Page 24 and page 25 of Astral Guide gives me lots of information.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why should a spelljammer DM have to buy Ghost of Saltmarsh for ship mechanics? Part of Appendix A of GoS should have been ported over and upgraded for Jammer. Heck they introduced a lot but included no price lists at all.
WOTC seems to say, Lore Light, Info Light. Go to other publishers or the past for details.

Perhaps they prefer to be yelled at for not putting in enough rather than to be yelled at for putting the wrong stuff. The important thing is they want to avoud anything resembling controversy.

 

[Hussar]

Why should a spelljammer DM have to buy Ghost of Saltmarsh for ship mechanics? Part of Appendix A of GoS should have been ported over and upgraded for Jammer. Heck they introduced a lot but included no price lists at all.
WOTC seems to say, Lore Light, Info Light. Go to other publishers or the past for details.

Because they don’t?

The rules are the same in both books.

 

[Hussar]

Perhaps they prefer to be yelled at for not putting in enough rather than to be yelled at for putting the wrong stuff. The important thing is they want to avoud anything resembling controversy.

Or, perhaps, they are giving people what they want.

Players have zero interest in ship to ship combat where each player takes a role - navigator, pilot, gunner, etc. They don’t want it.

At least every player I’ve tried to get to do it has. So WotC listened to fans and made a system that players actually want to play.



I mean I get it. I want a more detailed system too. But I know that what I want will never fly with players.

 

[Parmandur]

Yes. Close and board. What does the spelljammer do in spelljammer combat? What are the captain duties? What are the quartmaster duties? Why does each ship have nearly have the same ACME weapon systems?
Page 24 and page 25 of Astral Guide gives me lots of information.

Yes, enough for ship to ship combat engagement. The Ghoats of Saltmarsh comment upthread was because Saltmarsh introduced the same rules for naval combat. Apelljammer us Ghoats of Saltmarsh in space. That's 5E naval combat.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Or, perhaps, they are giving people what they want.

Players have zero interest in ship to ship combat where each player takes a role - navigator, pilot, gunner, etc. They don’t want it.

At least every player I’ve tried to get to do it has. So WotC listened to fans and made a system that players actually want to play.



I mean I get it. I want a more detailed system too. But I know that what I want will never fly with players.

I sympathize. But I still want it. Good thing you and I are on board with 3pp. Nice to know we can agree on something.

 

[Minigiant]

Or, perhaps, they are giving people what they want.

Players have zero interest in ship to ship combat where each player takes a role - navigator, pilot, gunner, etc. They don’t want it.

At least every player I’ve tried to get to do it has. So WotC listened to fans and made a system that players actually want to play.



I mean I get it. I want a more detailed system too. But I know that what I want will never fly with players.

My players loved taking roles/teams on the ship when I did it. They screamed orders to each other and shifted to other teams on the fly.

But my system was not too complex but not too simple.

Again like my criticism of Strixhaven, it leaned on the lore, mechanics, and style of D&D to play like D&D with boats rather than taking another media or IP and converting it.

 

[Hussar]

My players loved taking roles/teams on the ship when I did it. They screamed orders to each other and shifted to other teams on the fly.

But my system was not too complex but not too simple.

Again like my criticism of Strixhaven, it leaned on the lore, mechanics, and style of D&D to play like D&D with boats rather than taking another media or IP and converting it.

You’re far luckier than I. I’ve tried a bunch of different systems with multiple groups and players and none of them have remotely worked.

It’s been my white whale of gaming since the 2e days.