D&D (2024) Class spell lists and pact magic are back!

[Remathilis]

While we all have our pet rest lengths, I think anything south of like 30 minutes would be “good enough” for most of us. Or at least that’s how I feel; I have reasons why I think 10 minutes would be ideal, but I wouldn’t reject 1, 5, 15, or even 20 minutes.

1 minute basically is at will. Even 5 is. It basically makes it a cool down system with an expectation of entering each fight at full strength. Honestly, anything less than 10 minutes might as well be "when you roll initiative" as it's recharge.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The thing that's problematic about Short Rest timing is that the game is apparently, nominally, "balanced" around about half as many short rests as encounters per day, and that's some very tricky, finely-calibrated time-pressure to make that happen. So making a Short Rest short enough to actually be short risks a short rest after every encounter, which throws off said "balance."

(OTOH, It seems clear from informal surveys and general experience that tables range from single-encounter days, to few encounter days, to longish days (tho rarely 6-8), and from no short rests at all to maybe a short rest or two, maybe not. But rarely ever the 6-8 medium to hard/2-3 short rest days that supposedly balance* 5e. So any balance designed to be achieved by day-length and encounter/rest ratios is completely effed, anyway.)

Oh, and, FWIW, classic D&D progressed in 10-minute Dungeon-exploration turns, and when there was a combat taking only a portion of the turn, the balance was considered to be used resting,
ergo the correct duration of a short rest is no more than 10 minutes.



* a pretty implausible claim, 5e being balanceable by day-length, anyway.

 

[tetrasodium]

Yeah and this is the pattern I've seen emerge anywhere 5E is discussed significantly - a lot of people, usually between 45% and 70% of people, think Short Rests are too long at 1hr (depending on the crowd), and there'll be like 5-10% who think they're too short, but the point is the majority disagree with the length, and of those who think it should be shorter, almost all of them think 30 mins or less (I don't think I've ever seen a number between 60 and 30 minutes advocated for).

That WotC have never even asked about it in a survey tells us it's a big blindspot for them, imho.

There is also people who feel the problem is less the time than the ease. Time in d&d moves at the speed of plot & if the players decide they are going to simply stop to take a rest right here in the middle of the hallway the rules do everything to ensure they will be successful eventually

 

[Charlaquin]

1 minute basically is at will. Even 5 is. It basically makes it a cool down system with an expectation of entering each fight at full strength. Honestly, anything less than 10 minutes might as well be "when you roll initiative" as it's recharge.

That’s the idea, yeah. It’s also why I favor 10 minutes, as that’s just enough time to make it an actual commitment in dungeon exploration mode (because it’s the time a ritual spell takes to cast), while still being easily achievable after every encounter. But I’d accept less time; the “easily achievable after every encounter” part is more important to me than the “actual commitment” part.

 

[Remathilis]

That’s the idea, yeah. It’s also why I favor 10 minutes, as that’s just enough time to make it an actual commitment in dungeon exploration mode (because it’s the time a ritual spell takes to cast), while still being easily achievable after every encounter. But I’d accept less time; the “easily achievable after every encounter” part is more important to me than the “actual commitment” part.

Any spell system that is refreshed on combat and essentially infinite out of combat better not be better than a cantrip in power.

 

[Charlaquin]

The thing that's problematic about Short Rest timing is that the game is apparently, nominally, "balanced" around about half as many short rests as encounters per day, and that's some very tricky, finely-calibrated time-pressure to make that happen.

I don’t think it‘a difficult to pull off at all, as long as you’re not ideologically opposed to using random encounters. If you’ve got around about a 50% chance of a random encounter occurring per hour, then one short rest after every other encounter is a pretty safe bet.

The random system I use to roll for random encounters makes them a bit more frequent than that (approximately 1-in-6 per 10 minutes but rolled at the end of the hour, with additional rolls triggered by noisy or otherwise attention-grabbing actions), but it’s close enough for government work.

 

[Charlaquin]

Any spell system that is refreshed on combat and essentially infinite out of combat better not be better than a cantrip in power.

Another reason 10 minutes would be ideal in my opinion.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The random system I use to roll for random encounters makes them a bit more frequent than that (approximately 1-in-6 per 10 minutes but rolled at the end of the hour, with additional rolls triggered by noisy or otherwise attention-grabbing actions), but it’s close enough for government work.

Wandering monsters are another classic, yes, but they vary with the scenario. In a dungeon inhabbited by multiple rival faction, there'll be outright patrols and watchers on alert and the like - and that'd make sense. But, in an ancient tomb, there'll be traps, constructs, and undead, all notoriously site-bound, in a hexcrawl, you cover days and weeks of travel, while a city with that kind of random encounter frequency would soon have no living citizens, etc...
The pacing of possible adventures varies wildly, the pacing at which 5e supposedly balances doesn't.

(I mean, unless you embrace narrative/milestone recovery, then how long a rest may be is undefined. But I don't feel like that's on the table, or even in the room, or the same county...)

 

[tetrasodium]

Wandering monsters are another classic, yes, but they vary with the scenario. In a dungeon inhabbited by multiple rival faction, there'll be outright patrols and watchers on alert and the like - and that'd make sense. But, in an ancient tomb, there'll be traps, constructs, and undead, all notoriously site-bound, in a hexcrawl, you cover days and weeks of travel, while a city with that kind of random encounter frequency would soon have no living citizens, etc...
The pacing of possible adventures varies wildly, the pacing at which 5e supposedly balances doesn't.

(I mean, unless you embrace narrative/milestone recovery, then how long a rest may be is undefined. But I don't feel like that's on the table, or even in the room, or the same county...)

Also with monk & warlock getting such extreme returns on a short rest it simply doesn't matter if it gets interrupted. The worst case scenario is those two nova and everyone else uses basic attacks or cantrips then the party's takes another rest for anything shy of a rocks fall level random encounter

 

[SkidAce]

52 minutes is the only correct short rest length and I will not hear otherwise.

You had the opportunity to say "42" and missed it.