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The different between collaborative improv and TTRPGs isn't the "G', it's the "TT".
Fair. "Game" does get ambiguous. There are wargames, card games, CCGs, all manner of gambling games, computer/video/on-line games, board games, schoolyard games, ancient Roman gladatorial games, confidence games, mind games, War Games....
 

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To me this seems like one of those arguments over which of Association, Gridiron or Rugby football ought to be considered the 'real' football (based on one or another physical or historic quality of one or another of the sports). Or maybe someone loudly advocating that the necromancers in a game aren't 'really' necromancers because all they do is animate corpses, not communicate with the spirits of the dead to divine secrets and foretell the future (like 'real,' non-fantasy-genre necromancers might). It seems incredibly pointless to my mind because, quite frankly, sometimes a word is just a social convention.

There is a recreational activity we all partake in. It is, socially if by no other metric, a distinct category from board games and their ilk, improv acting, larping, computer RPGS, or any other past time; and at the same time a cohesive whole (if only in that people regularly switch between them during time set aside for playing one of the whole). I'm sure there are several incredibly long-winded arguments pertaining to how '(Table-Top) Role-Playing Game' is not the most perfect term to describe this category of activities, each hinging upon some highly technical facet the argument-crafter and at least three other people consider of-most-primary-concern. However, that is the term that has been taken by the community of this activity (and society in general). Trying now to argue that one or more of the group of activities shouldn't technically be included by the term doesn't actually improve what is communicated by using the term.
 
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To me this seems like one of those arguments over which of Association, Gridiron or Rugby football ought to be considered the 'real' football (based on one or another physical or historic quality of one or another of the sports). Or maybe someone loudly advocating that the necromancers in a game aren't 'really' necromancers because all they do is animate corpses, not communicate with the spirits of the dead to divine secrets and foretell the future (like 'real,' non-fantasy-genre necromancers might). It seems incredibly pointless to my mind because, quite frankly, sometimes a word is just a social convention.

There is a recreational activity we all partake in. It is, socially if by no other metric, a distinct category from board games and their ilk, Improve acting, larping, computer RPGS, or any other past time; and at the same time a cohesive whole (if only in that people regularly switch between them during time set aside for playing one of the whole). I'm sure there are several incredibly long-winded arguments pertaining to how '(Table-Top) Role-Playing Game' is not the most perfect term to describe this category of activities, each hinging upon some highly technical facet the argument-crafter and at least three other people consider of-most-primary-concern. However, that is the term that has been taken by the community of this activity (and society in general). Trying now to argue that one or more of the group of activities shouldn't technically be included by the term doesn't actually improve what is communicated by using the term.
This. Can someone explain the value in saying D&D isnt actually a TTRPG?
 




I'm pretty confident about pure freestyle RP not being a game, tho. I mean, no rules, no a game? Is that too uncontroversial to even mention here. ;)
Not only is it controversial, I'd go so far as to say it's outright wrong.

You're flat-out saying that Braunstein (the mostly-freeform-RP predecessor to D&D) isn't a game. I'd posit that anyone who's played it would disagree in very clear terms.
 

Disagree. If the premise a discussion is based on is itself faulty, that needs to be called out ASAP.

Sometimes. Sometimes it's just being contrarian. If, for example, there's a discussion forum where people talk about how baloos are bears and how it's wonderous and fun hobby, you may not necessarily be welcome if you want to talk about how baloos are, in fact, not bears at all.

Sometimes you're just off-topic, sea-lioning, tilting at windmills, interfering with others' discussions, or otherwise being deliberately obtuse.

Because most premises people actually like discussing are not based on facts at all. They're almost always based on opinions, and everyone is entitled to one of those.
 

Sometimes. Sometimes it's just being contrarian. If, for example, there's a discussion forum where people talk about how baloos are bears and how it's wonderous and fun hobby, you may not necessarily be welcome if you want to talk about how baloos are, in fact, not bears at all.

Sometimes you're just off-topic, sea-lioning, tilting at windmills, interfering with others' discussions, or otherwise being deliberately obtuse.

Because most premises people actually like discussing are not based on facts at all. They're almost always based on opinions, and everyone is entitled to one of those.
Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion, thats why people actually do arguing against the premise of a discussion, because their opinion differs from the premise, they don't accept it.

But yeah, sometimes its just being contrarian or nitpicky, but otherhands its a fair opinion and sometimes it is even very important to oppose the premise of a discussion. If the premise itself is problematic because it is based on racist or sexist assumptions for example.
 


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