D&D 5E [+] Ways to fix the caster / non-caster gap

[M_Natas]

When things like this have been brought up before I remember being convinced that it really makes the game not fun to have to decide how much closer to death you want to be to do things on a regular basis.

One place I've wondered about using it is when people run out of their daily or short rest abilities. What if you usually only do that maneuver once because it's so taxing... but if you reach down and push it you can do it again. Where reaching down and pushing it is the hit point expenditure. (I could also see exhaustion instead of hit points too).

I tried to do the exhaustion thing at my table. You can gain a one level of exhaustion to get the benefits of a short rest or gain two levels for the benefits of a long rest (without HP and Hitdice regaining).
Nobody ever used it.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Let us never again return to the Vancian Prep times. Let us look forward to a time of no prep casting at all.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

In another thread I proposed something that is the opposite of that: charging the characters during combat so that the cool abilities are used at the end of combat and not at the beginning.
Like, for every vanilla attack action you make, you get a charge. Then you have cool abilities, that can only be used when you have enough charges.
It would change D&D battles from being front loaded to being backloaded. At the moment if a fight is longer than two or three rounds, fights end usually with "I make the attack action. I use a cantrip", because the optimal strategy for like every D&D fight is to use you biggest powers first to end the battle quickly (especially with a 5 Minute work day).
Which leads to casters using big spells, being very effective.

In comparison, Fighters or Rogues without ressources to use up, who just do consistent damage, feel underwhelming.
Like mathematically a fighter and a wizard do roughly the same amount of damage. But the Wizard has spikes of damage with a low base damage while fighters and rogues do consistent medium damage throughout.

Now, you could give fighters also front loaded abilities that use up resources like a wizard or we could try to implement charging abilities, so that in general fighters and wizards do their base damage at the beginning ofnthe battle and only use big abilities at the end to end the fight.

this would be at least a 4e magnitude of change. which...i mean, i'd be willing to give it a shot, but i have a feeling most people wouldn't.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Like, I didn't start with the insistence that martials need to be mundane. I don't have any problem with super heroic characters if you have some sort of supernatural explanation on how they got that powers.

That's easy.

They are fantasy characters who live in a fantasy world.

See bullets 1, 3, and 4 of the post you replied to.

 

[M_Natas]

Sure. I care only in the sense that "martials aren't supernatural, but casters are" is used as the justification to retain a martial/caster gap. I know plenty of people, both online and IRL, who think casters being supreme at upper levels is a feature, not a bug.

My problem was (maybe that was here or another thread about the same topic) that people wanted to have mundane non magical martials to be on par with Wizards at very high levels, which I don't like.
Like, I have no problem, if there is an explanation for why the martials have the supernatural powers they have.

 

[M_Natas]

Wearing weighted clothing to get strong is supernatural?

Also, are we talking comics 'The Destroyer' Drax, or 'Does Whatever a Dave Batista Can' movies Drax? Is Dave Batista magic? It would explains some things...

If you don't consider Dave Bautista magic I don't know what is

 

[MichaelSomething]

If you want awesome fighters, I made a thread for you!
If you want mundane fighters, I made a thread for you!
If you want the mechanics to match the fiction, I made a thread for you!

Who else wants some?!?

 

[DammitVictor]

If you want awesome fighters, I made a thread for you!
If you want mundane fighters, I made a thread for you!
If you want the mechanics to match the fiction, I made a thread for you!

Who else wants some?!?

You get a thread! You get a thread! Everyone gets a thread!

 

[Lanefan]

Which is exactly why you do not build NPCs with the PC rules. The problem you create for yourself by insisting on making NPCs using the PC rules is entirely an own goal. And is completely avoided by not doing that in the first place. But you have to? No, you don’t. But you should? No, you shouldn’t. Clearly. Gooses and ganders? No. The referee is not bound in any way by the PC rules when creating NPCs. Full stop.

And how exactly does that do anything for in-setting consistency?

Note: if "in-setting consistency is irrelevant" or similar is your answer, please try again.

 

[Gammadoodler]

And how exactly does that do anything for in-setting consistency?

Note: if "in-setting consistency is irrelevant" or similar is your answer, please try again.

Is "unnecessary" similar to irrelevant? I suppose so.

But with that said, I haven't seen a persuasive argument that the consistency you are looking for is desirable.