D&D General (+)Let's fix martial/casters the Mical way!

[MichaelSomething]

For a change of pace, let's all agree with @Micah Sweet
I'm sure whatever changes Micah would make would be perfectly in tune with the fiction. So if that's your goal, then this is the place for you! If not, then message me and we come up with some solutions that work for you!

So Micah, how would you alter 5E to make it more even for casters and martials? If I don't have to worry about other people rejecting your ideas out of hand, we can focus on refining those ideas so that it can work best for you (and all the other people who value mechanics that reinforce process simulation or realism or whatever the correct term for it is).

 

[James Gasik]

I'm going to put on the magic turban and make a prediction.

(Micah Sweet): "Switch to playing Level Up."

 

[Micah Sweet]

I have said this before, but I have two suggestions:

1. Go back to a caster/martial paradigm more similar to TSR's editions. Make fighters the best at fighting, whether that be by increased to hit and/damage, reintroduction of the old school cleave, or some other means. Make sure casters are squishy and bring back the difficulties of spellcasting (interruption, limited spell choice, no infinite attack cantrips). Make 6th level and up spells lengthy, hard to find rituals. Bring back the domain game, and give the best stuff for it to fighters.

2. Better martial classes. This is where Level Up comes in (thanks for the nice intro @James Gasik ), and I really like its martial options, but I would also like to see a supernatural martial class, with a wide array of choices in what abilities they can choose, and a general focus on improved physical ability (stat and skill bonuses to physical actions and fighting ability). Subclass provides themes akin to superhero archetypes.

That's what I've got so far. Obviously a focus on verisimilitude is important to me, but I have no issue with martials having supernatural ability as long as a supernatural explanation is provided.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

For a change of pace, let's all agree with @Micah Sweet
I'm sure whatever changes Micah would make would be perfectly in tune with the fiction. So if that's your goal, then this is the place for you! If not, then message me and we come up with some solutions that work for you!

So Micah, how would you alter 5E to make it more even for casters and martials? If I don't have to worry about other people rejecting your ideas out of hand, we can focus on refining those ideas so that it can work best for you (and all the other people who value mechanics that reinforce process simulation or realism or whatever the correct term for it is).

Mod Note:

To anyone and everyone posting in this thread: I’m not closing it at the moment. However, the context of other recent threads plus the tone and content of this one’s original post make me doubt that this thread was started with actual civil discourse and constructive discussion in mind.

Please do me the kindness of proving my suspicions incorrect.

 

[MichaelSomething]

That's what I've got so far. Obviously a focus on verisimilitude is important to me, but I have no issue with martials having supernatural ability as long as a supernatural explanation is provided.

Should the explanation be in the PHB, DMG, or MM? And how many pages should be dedicated to it?

Do you know any products on the DM's guild that focus on those issues??

 

[Laurefindel]

Should the explanation be in the PHB, DMG, or MM? And how many pages should be dedicated to it?

Do you know any products on the DM's guild that focus on those issues??

5e PHB already does that to a certain extend pertaining monks and several barbarian subclasses. I don’t know if that would be enough to satisfy @Micah Sweet, but asking for a bit of in-game explanation as to why someone can jump over a tower or wreath its sword in fire is a reasonable request IMHO.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Should the explanation be in the PHB, DMG, or MM? And how many pages should be dedicated to it?

Do you know any products on the DM's guild that focus on those issues??

The PH in any case (we're talking about PCs here). If we go with the supernatural fighter class, it would be in the class description. I posted an example a while back in another thread, inspired by the mutants of Marvel Comics (powers manifesting usually in youth and requiring training for full potential to be reached).

If instead or in addition you want martials in general to be capable of supernatural abilities at higher levels, a sentence or two at the beginning of the Classes chapter explaining that all characters transition to supernatural status in, say, Tier 3 that would work too, although I really think sometimes the game would simply be better off capping at a lower level altogether.

I'd have to do some research in Drivethru or DMsGuild to answer your other question; I'll get back to you on that.

I have decided to try to take this thread seriously, but honestly I to a degree share the mods' concern that there's an element of mockery here. I hope I'm mistaken about that.

 

[TwoSix]

I have decided to try to take this thread seriously, but honestly I to a degree share the mods' concern that there's an element of mockery here. I hope I'm mistaken about that.

I can't be 100% sure, but I think it isn't mockery but it's more that you're a strong figurehead as a vocal proponent for traditional/simulationist play.

 

[Stormonu]

Though Micah and I have diverged a lot on what we want out of our D&D games, I do feel that the magic classes have gotten out of hand and really overshadow the idea of classes who can be compelling without having to pick up some sort of supernatural/magical abilities.

I really dislike infinite cantrips, especially when 99% of them are ranged and allow the caster to use their strongest stat that gives them parity with the fighter's chance to hit. Coupled with the fact they automagically increase damage to match the fighter's damage output. To me if spellcasters want to keep combat parity, they should have to sacrifice it in their breadth of options available to them so the can't do everything equally well.

And I strongly agree the spellcasters have been given it too easy with options that make them unstoppable at higher levels, for the same reasons Micah lists. Meanwhile, fighters get an extra sword swing. Henchmen, mastery of mass combat, strongholds and the like should all be coming on-line to give the martials (and rogues) some options beyond using their sword arm to solve problems.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I would also like to see a supernatural martial class, with a wide array of choices in what abilities they can choose, and a general focus on improved physical ability (stat and skill bonuses to physical actions and fighting ability). Subclass provides themes akin to superhero archetypes.

They're working on it!