Level Up (A5E) Perceptive Stance Maneuver: +3 or +6 to passive perception?

[Stalker0]

This question has floated around a few times, but now my player is considering taking it, and of course assumed a +6 to passive perception right off the bat, so I could use the designer's intention.

There are two interpretations currently:

• +6 passive perception (+3 to passive directly from the stance, another +3 because an expertise die to perception checks also adds to passive perception). This is the RAW interpretation.
• +3 passive perception (the stance really just grants an expertise die to perception checks, and the designers wanted to remind the user that this also gives you a passive perception bonus). This interpretation is more the fact that a +3 "feels" more in line with the power level of a 1st level stance, at least from my perspective.

So which one did the designers intend?

 

[tetrasodium]

This question has floated around a few times, but now my player is considering taking it, and of course assumed a +6 to passive perception right off the bat, so I could use the designer's intention.

There are two interpretations currently:

• +6 passive perception (+3 to passive directly from the stance, another +3 because an expertise die to perception checks also adds to passive perception). This is the RAW interpretation.
• +3 passive perception (the stance really just grants an expertise die to perception checks, and the designers wanted to remind the user that this also gives you a passive perception bonus). This interpretation is more the fact that a +3 "feels" more in line with the power level of a 1st level stance, at least from my perspective.

So which one did the designers intend?

I think that the duo is more avoiding the problem that occurs with the observant feat in o5e where a wizard or whatever will snag it to round off an uneven int score & be forever "no I don't want to search the room with investigation, I just want to walk in & passively use my 5(int mod)+5(observant)+5(proficient)+10(passive) passive investigate score of 25".

If the player is in perceptive stance doing something passively with perception they get a +3 to passive. If they are in perceptive stance actively doing something with perceptionlike keeping watch or searching for traps they get an expertise die.

 

[Stalker0]

If the player is in perceptive stance doing something passively with perception they get a +3 to passive. If they are in perceptive stance actively doing something with perceptionlike keeping watch or searching for traps they get an expertise die.

Aka interpretation 2 above. Makes plenty of sense to me, but its also not the RAW if you read the ability as is. Hence why I would love some designers insight on this one, as especially now two of my group has it!

 

[tetrasodium]

Aka interpretation 2 above. Makes plenty of sense to me, but its also not the RAW if you read the ability as is. Hence why I would love some designers insight on this one, as especially now two of my group has it!

Where are you getting that an expertise die adds to passive? do you have a page /section or something?

 

[Faolyn]

I think it's probably the latter, although it's not well-worded.

 

[Anselm]

Where are you getting that an expertise die adds to passive? do you have a page /section or something?

Page 402

 

[tetrasodium]

Page 402

from looking at the playtest packet there might be a third interpretation too since it looks like this was the prior form

I think that the 402 bit is things evolving & something needing a bit of errata or something because perceptive stance is a super low cost for +6 passive perception. Barring something more defined I think that I'd do the either/or mentioned earlier or limit the stacking to situations where players are actively in combat only.

 

[Nikosandros]

I agree with the consensus. It shoud be just +3 to passive perception, but the way it is worded, by RAW it grants +6.

 

[Morrus]

Intention is that it is an expertise die on perception checks, and that (as such) it adds +3 to your passive perception. The +3 is intended as a reiteration of the general rule, not an additional stacking of it.

 

[Psykotik_Dragon]

I agree with the consensus. It shoud be just +3 to passive perception, but the way it is worded, by RAW it grants +6.

RAW it's actually just reiterating that having an expertise die to a skill adds a +3 flat to passive. This was already stated in another forum thread on this same topic by Morrus himself. He did say a scaling bonus for additional expertise die probably wouldn't hurt anything either, but RAW it was a single +3 bonus & the stance only adds the expertise die.