D&D (2024) Playtest 8: Cantrips

[mellored]

Fair enough. So it is only the highest tier that is an issue. Even then, only by 2 damage.

It's still just better from 1-10. Plus radiant, plus it's both melee and ranged. Anyways. Here's a tweak to fix it.


The attack uses your spell casting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity.

levels 5 (1 extra weapon die), 11 (2 extra weapon die), and 17 (3 extra weapon die).


Assuming 14 Dex and light crossbow you have a
xd8+2, radiant, 80' / melee
vs
xd10, fire, 120'

I'd still take true stike. But at least it's close. And if you spend a feat or multiclass for heavy crossbow, that's fine.

 

[Mistwell]

It's the most damaging cantrip from 1 to 16. Works in both melee and range, with longer range, and a superior damage type.

And assuming you get a magic weapon of some kind, it's better at 17+ too.

As this stands, no one would ever take poison spray or firebolt again.

Not seeing how it's the most damaging cantrip from 1 to 16 for an average PC taking it?

You can't use a crossbow for instance. A crossbow has the two-handed property when being used, and the spell has a Somatic component requiring a hand free. You can't "switch" because it's simultaneous. You cannot use a two handed weapon with this spell.

 

[Leatherhead]

Shouldn't true strike be a good choice for an eldritch knight?

Why? Not every spell has to be good for everyone. Especially when they can just pick up Greenflame Blade instead.

As this stands, no one would ever take poison spray or firebolt again.

Sure they will. Fire Bolt can't be disarmed, nor does it require weapon and focus juggling to get off Real Leveled Spells.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

True strike just needs better scaling.

1d8 bonus for one handed or ranged weapons
1d12 bonus for 2handed melee weapons

I don't think the size of the weapon should matter for the ability, as that is a quadratic leap (both base weapon die and bonus die increase) or people will only ever use the biggest weapon possible. It's enough to get a bit more damage by using a larger weapon. No need to make the divide bigger

 

[Neonchameleon]

Why? Not every spell has to be good for everyone. Especially when they can just pick up Greenflame Blade instead.

Indeed. This version of True Strike does exactly what it is mechanically supposed to. Which is to make a wizard who wants to cut people with a dagger, shoot them with a crossbow (assuming rules clarification on somatic goes the way I expect), or throw darts at them approximately equal to a wizard who wants to firebolt people.

Expecting it to also be an Eldritch Knight mainstay rather than worse at that job than a more specialised spell like Booming Blade is expecting unnecessary design finesse.

Sure they will. Fire Bolt can't be disarmed, nor does it require weapon and focus juggling to get off Real Leveled Spells.

Agreed. The DPR doesn't have to be a perfect match. Just close enough that people don't think you're being utterly ridiculous with either choice. And right now it's near enough that rule of cool is enough to make the difference either way.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I think Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster would be using Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade over True Strike. For Bards though, I definitely think True Strike should be their priority, with Vicious Mockery and Mind Sliver for other situations.

 

[mellored]

Not seeing how it's the most damaging cantrip from 1 to 16 for an average PC taking it?

It's the +ability modifier.

True Strike: 1d8+1d6+5 = 13
Vs
Firebolt: 2d10 = 11

So remove that, and probably make the scaling a d8.

You can't use a crossbow for instance. A crossbow has the two-handed property when being used, and the spell has a Somatic component requiring a hand free. You can't "switch" because it's simultaneous. You cannot use a two handed weapon with this spell.

You can use a Somatic component with the same hand your holding the Material component.

And the material component is the weapon.

 

[Mistwell]

It's the +ability modifier.

True Strike: 1d8+1d6+5 = 13
Vs
Firebolt: 2d10 = 11

So remove that, and probably make the scaling a d8.

You can use a Somatic component with the same hand your holding the Material component.

And the material component is the weapon.

Yes but I am not talking about the material component. To fire a crossbow, which must happen simultaneous with the somatic component use, you must use both hands. You cannot use a somatic component which requires an empty hand at the same time you use that hand to fire a crossbow, regardless of material components. This is one of those unusual cases (I think by intent) where you can't "take your hand off" to do the somatic component and then "put your hand back on it" to fire. They don't happen in that order for this spell.

And I'd say if you're bending the rules to a corner case interpretation which needs DM adjudication, it isn't the best analysis for how this spell should be overall analyzed right?

I am just not seeing a typical user of this cantrip doing more damage from levels 1 to 16 than all other cantrips.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Yes but I am not talking about the material component. To fire a crossbow, which must happen simultaneous with the somatic component use, you must use both hands. You cannot use a somatic component which requires an empty hand at the same time you use that hand to fire a crossbow, regardless of material components. This is one of those unusual cases (I think by intent) where you can't "take your hand off" to do the somatic component and then "put your hand back on it" to fire. They don't happen in that order for this spell.

You've misinterpreted; according to the material components rules:

If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.​

And the material component for True Strike is the weapon you use to make the attack. In this case therefore a hand on a crossbow (or other weapon) can be used for somatic components for this spell and you don't need to take your hand off the weapon at all.

 

[Neonchameleon]

It's the +ability modifier.

True Strike: 1d8+1d6+5 = 13
Vs
Firebolt: 2d10 = 11

So remove that, and probably make the scaling a d8.

I'm seeing this - although would expect under the new paradigm a pre-level 12 wizard to only have +4 Int. I'm just not seeing why I should care about a single point of damage (1d8 + 1d6 +4) from levels 5-10 and no damage at all from levels 12-16 (1d8 + 2d6 + 5 = 16.5, 3d10 = 16.5). By level 5 the damage is near enough that it's mostly a matter of taste which you pick.