D&D General Is DnD being mothballed?

[Parmandur]

They can't be serving it that well, the only people who don't seem to use 3pp or homebrew are people who play the game ultra-casually enough that they have a rulebook sitting around from when they played back in 2018 and maybe some of the psuedo-OSR 5e types-- even casual games that were just put together by high school kids immediately feature someone showing up with something they found online, and asking how to transfer a particular homebrew is maybe like the #3 question I end up running into when someone switched from 5e to PF2e.

But to be honest, I'm pre-emptively a little worried this line of questioning is going to devolve into amorphous allusions to a silent majority that by definition, isn't speaking, with any that do speak, clearly too invested to be counted.

Currently the lowest selling 5E gamebook is Kwys from the Golden Vault, which has sold 18,000 copies as of July not including Beyond or FLGS hobby outlets. They produce 5 books a year that sell like hotcakes.

 

[Oofta]

They can't be serving it that well, the only people who don't seem to use 3pp or homebrew are people who play the game ultra-casually enough that they have a rulebook sitting around from when they played back in 2018 and maybe some of the psuedo-OSR 5e types-- even casual games that were just put together by high school kids immediately feature someone showing up with something they found online, and asking how to transfer a particular homebrew is maybe like the #3 question I end up running into when someone switched from 5e to PF2e.

But to be honest, I'm pre-emptively a little worried this line of questioning is going to devolve into amorphous allusions to a silent majority that by definition, isn't speaking, with any that do speak, clearly too invested to be counted.

While every table I've played at has a couple of minor house rules and clarifications, they've never been what i considered "homebrew". Outside homebrew settings, which are fairly common of course.

I've also never seen anyone use 3PP outside of the occasional monster or setting.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I've also never seen anyone use 3PP outside of the occasional monster or setting.

Wow. Our Venn diagram barely overlaps.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

While every table I've played at has a couple of minor house rules and clarifications, they've never been what i considered "homebrew". Outside homebrew settings, which are fairly common of course.

I've also never seen anyone use 3PP outside of the occasional monster or setting.

If I recall, I think I was counting your table (from having read many of your posts) in the categories I already exempted from the statement-- your playstyle seems to run to the lighter, older, traditional fantasy stuff, using 5e as a substitute for something like ODND, I could have gotten the wrong impression though. Tables in the greater sphere generally seem to reference third party, homebrew, and the more gonzo 5e options much more.

 

[Parmandur]

If I recall, I think I was counting your table (from having read many of your posts) in the categories I already exempted from the statement-- your playstyle seems to run to the lighter, older, traditional fantasy stuff, using 5e as a substitute for something like ODND, I could have gotten the wrong impression though. Tables in the greater sphere generally seem to reference third party, homebrew, and the more gonzo 5e options much more.

But, do they...? I know of no data that suggests that is generally true. Generic stuff is generic because...people go for it, by and large. Look at the big successful third party Setting of the decade, Exandria: it is awesome, but it is very standard D&D as well.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

Currently the lowest selling 5E gamebook is Kwys from the Golden Vault, which has sold 18,000 copies as of July not including Beyond or FLGS hobby outlets. They produce 5 books a year that sell like hotcakes.

Its hard to tell sometimes how much certain community beloved homebrews have penetrated, though anecdotally (again) before I switched to PF2e I had a fairly obscure centaur homebrew that was getting thousands of engagements on the various homebrew tumblr blogs and occasionally ran into players who used it in the wild, the likes Benjamin Huffman, Matt Collville, and Kibblestasty must have been doing some really comparable numbers to that, in terms of players who were seeing and trying to use that content.

 

[Parmandur]

Its hard to tell sometimes how much certain community beloved homebrews have penetrated, though anecdotally (again) before I switched to PF2e I had a fairly obscure centaur homebrew that was getting thousands of engagements on the various homebrew tumblr blogs and occasionally ran into players who used it in the wild, the likes Benjamin Huffman, Matt Collville, and Kibblestasty must have been doing some really comparable numbers to that, in terms of players who were seeing and trying to use that content.

Sure, that's part of what makes D&D D&D. DIY is robustly supported and possible.

But on the scale of millions of players, a few thousand people using a particular hoembrew is relatively minor note, awesome as it is. WotC juat isn't trying to make books that sell to small audiences...though theybhave been hiring designers who start that was in 3PP and on the DMsGuild.

Heck, McKenzie De rmas was a college student who had never played D&D in 2019, and now she has a major book coming put next month as one of the lead designers for WotC.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

But, do they...? I know of no data that suggests that is generally true. Generic stuff is generic because...people go for it, by and large. Look at the big successful third party Setting of the decade, Exandria: it is awesome, but it is very standard D&D as well.

I don't think they dislike generic per se, but I think there's a lot of attraction to the more gonzo stuff, hexblade does extraordinarily well on the basis of being very powerful and very anime. I don't think we have reliable data regardless.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

Sure, that's part of what makes D&D D&D. DIY is robustly supported and possible.

But on the scale of millions of players, a few thousand people using a particular hoembrew is relatively minor note, awesome as it is. WotC juat isn't trying to make books that sell to small audiences...though theybhave been hiring designers who start that was in 3PP and on the DMsGuild.

Heck, McKenzie De rmas was a college student who had never played D&D in 2019, and now she has a major book coming put next month as one of the lead designers for WotC.

I meant more comparable to WOTC's own material, because in the grand scheme of things my content was fairly unknown.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So when WOTC doesn't make drastic changes, they're being too conservative, a complaint we hear pretty frequently around here. If they do a VTT that will stand out, they aren't being conservative enough? They can't win.

I think they need to do something fairly radical to stand out from the crowd. The goal is not to have just another VTT in a crowded market that already has plenty of entrenched fanbases, they want to up the game in ways other companies likely can't afford so they can potentially dominate the high end VTT market. Will it work? Heck if I know. But that understand why their doing it, if you want to hit a home run you have to swing hard.

They don't need to hit a home run. The game is already a blow-out.