Unpopular opinions go here

[overgeeked]

Unpopular opinion. Unless you’re the world’s best referee (and you are not) you cannot reasonably expect 100% attention from your players for 4-6 hours. Also note, things like ADHD exist and there’s a good chance someone in your group has it…if not multiple people. Their brain is literally incapable of giving you 100% attention for 4-6 hours. Them diving into their cell phone is infinitely less distracting and disruptive to the rest of the table than the other options. Constantly rolling dice, talking over people, interrupting, talking about unrelated things, playing with the maps and minis, etc. Trust me. You’d much rather they stare at their phone for a few minutes at a time when it’s not their turn. You can choose to take it as an insult or disrespect. But chances are that is them being as respectful as they can be…by not disrupting the game for everyone else. Source: I am a gamer with ADHD and I’m the father of a gamer with ADHD.

 

[Velderan]

Unpopular opinion. Unless you’re the world’s best referee (and you are not) you cannot reasonably expect 100% attention from your players for 4-6 hours. Also note, things like ADHD exist and there’s a good chance someone in your group has it…if not multiple people. Their brain is literally incapable of giving you 100% attention for 4-6 hours. Them diving into their cell phone is infinitely less distracting and disruptive to the rest of the table than the other options. Constantly rolling dice, talking over people, interrupting, talking about unrelated things, playing with the maps and minis, etc. Trust me. You’d much rather they stare at their phone for a few minutes at a time when it’s not their turn. You can choose to take it as an insult or disrespect. But chances are that is them being as respectful as they can be…by not disrupting the game for everyone else. Source: I am a gamer with ADHD and I’m the father of a gamer with ADHD.

That's the main reason I make it a point to say "Bob, you're up. Steve, you're up next." when going through the initiative order. If Steve wasn't paying attention, it's a polite reminder he's next and to start thinking about what he'd like to do on his turn.

 

[pemerton]

Longevity doesn't necessarily require a mechanical expression, except for something like the age chart. But that still matters mechanically because if you say get aged by a ghost or something, then the longevity comes into play in a potentially significant way

Longevity was introduced into this conversation as pertaining to Galadriel and other JRRT-esque Elves. Which has absolutely nothing to do with being resistant to a ghost's terror. If you actually want to have the Elves in your game resemble Legolas at the Paths of the Dead, you need a rule that says something like No undead fear, paralysis or similar effect will affect an Elf.

My point is just D&D loses something if races don't have mechanics to back up the physical differences (I think it runs into the humans in funny hats problem).

If I am playing an ogre, I think them being stronger than humans is quite important and helpful to making them stand out. To the other posters point, Spock’s strength was highly effective because it was an interesting contrast to his logic and often had a shocking effect because you realized a race that doesn’t present itself as strong, actually is (and again just a helpful reminder that there is a different physiology)

Except that being exceptionally strong adds an interesting dimension, not just to the Vulcans in general, but in light of their devotion to logic and repressed emotion and what happens when the repressed emotions break through. How many times did it come up in the show that Spock was exceptionally strong? Not as often as his logic and repressed emotions, but it came up often enough to be a salient point of distinction between him and his fellow shipmates and one worth including in any adaptation of Vulcans in role playing games.

A +1 or +2 stat mod won't, in general, produce characters who are exceptionally strong or dextrous or resistant to magic or whatever. If you want your Ogres to be stronger than humans they need a floor of (say) 18 or 20 STR (depending on which edition's chart is being used) and then perhaps some variation above that (if we need to differentiate the strength of various Ogres).

Tunnels & Trolls comes closer to this than D&D ever has, using multipliers to reflect these mental and physical differences among peoples.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Fancy hard to read dice are the worst.

I can one-up that.

A few years back my wife bought a set of dice that could only be read under ultraviolet light. The set came with an ultraviolet pen light. She used them once.

Apart from just being goddam slow the old black light isn't very effective when competing with other light sources. You know, like the regular light we need to read character sheets, and see one another.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I wouldn't say +2 is a minor bonus. But races were usually more than just a bonus like that. In 2E for instance you had ability requirements before you could even choose a race, then you had ability modifiers. On top of that, you had a whole bucket of stuff in the entry. Just taking the halfling as an example:


Classes available: Cleric, Fighter, Thief, or Fighter/Thief
Langauge selection
Resistance to magic that translates into saving throw bonus based on Con score
Resistance to poisons that functions on same principle
Bonus when using slings
Bonus to surprise
Potential for infravision
Stoutblood can discern sloping passages with 75% accuracy
Strength penalty and dexterity bonus (mentioned both in entry and in racial adjustment table)

Then compare to elves:

Classes available: cleric, fighter, mage, thief, ranger. Fighter/Mage, fighter/thief, fighter/mage/thief, mage/thief
Language selection
90% resistance to sleep and charm
Bonus to bows
Surprise bonus
Infravision up to 60 feet
Detect secret doors
Dex Bonus, Con penalty

and so on

People don't have to like all these elements, but I think it is hard to argue they aren't distinct. I do think reducing races to just a single bonus or something really misses the value racial selection in D&D has added. But then making them totally meaningless and just a simple cultural overlay also misses the value.





I would not say this is meaningless, but I also agree this shouldn't be the only thing that differentiates races



This I would disagree with. Preference obviously, but I like when this kind of choice has mechanical heft in the game

I like the 4e approach where you have various racial powers and feats.

 

[Bedrockgames]

A +1 or +2 stat mod won't, in general, produce characters who are exceptionally strong or dextrous or resistant to magic or whatever. If you want your Ogres to be stronger than humans they need a floor of (say) 18 or 20 STR (depending on which edition's chart is being used) and then perhaps some variation above that (if we need to differentiate the strength of various Ogres).

I agree ogres need to be stronger. I only mentioned them because I have Ogres as a race in one of my own games and they are stronger in two mechanical ways.

Tunnels & Trolls comes closer to this than D&D ever has, using multipliers to reflect these mental and physical differences among peoples.

I am not a big tunnels and trolls fan so I can't really weigh in there. But my argument is not that D&D has done it best. Just that mechanical modifiers to reflect physiological differences between races are a good thing

 

[Bedrockgames]

Longevity was introduced into this conversation as pertaining to Galadriel and other JRRT-esque Elves. Which has absolutely nothing to do with being resistant to a ghost's terror. If you actually want to have the Elves in your game resemble Legolas at the Paths of the Dead, you need a rule that says something like No undead fear, paralysis or similar effect will affect an Elf.

Sure but it is still an important detail, and it is something that would matter if a character were to be aged. So having a mechanic like different max age ranges and starting ages for different races can be very useful (and age effects categories can be useful too). Magical and ghostly aging aside, even natural aging matters in a long enough campaign. I brought up ghosts because if a ghost ages you 40 years, whether you have a human lifespan or elven, will matter a great deal

 

[MGibster]

More to the point, I've never liked the idea of "tank" vs "DPS" (which I assume means damage-dealer?) as being different roles. The tank should be the one capable of both taking and giving out the most damage in melee.

In the Before Times, that is before MMORPGS, a Fighter type was described as a tank or a brick. The tank, or brick, was typically a tough fighter/brawler who could dish out a lot of punishment and in return take a lot of punishment in return. But there wasn't an expectation that the Fighter would get punched in the face while everyone else in the party remained safe from attack. Sure, my Fighter would certainly try to protect the Magic-User, but he wouldn't be expected to maintain aggro or something like that.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Ah. To me when I think "tank" I think of the Sherman version: really good defense combined with a great big gun that hella hurts when it hits you.

Odd, considering its poor armor and underpowered gun...

But you are not wrong: all three can be done by a single player.

One of my problems with D&D is that the roles are limited, and so many are combat-focused. My current campaign I have six players, and each of them has a combat and non-combat focus.

 

[Jd Smith1]

In the Before Times, that is before MMORPGS, a Fighter type was described as a tank or a brick. The tank, or brick, was typically a tough fighter/brawler who could dish out a lot of punishment and in return take a lot of punishment in return. But there wasn't an expectation that the Fighter would get punched in the face while everyone else in the party remained safe from attack. Sure, my Fighter would certainly try to protect the Magic-User, but he wouldn't be expected to maintain aggro or something like that.

I've never understood the 'tank' role. Why would enemies not flank him to get to the tender spellcasters beyond?

What about ranged attacks? I guess bows are still pretty anemic in D&D.