Are Superhero films dying?

[wicked cool]

So to destroy the argument. If The boys makes a movie it doesn’t make a ton of money ? Any one of the main cast is a better actor than any new current marvel actor

People went out during covid and set box office records for top gun. I’m not dropping 30+ for a trip for 2 to see the ok to bad stuff right now. I regretted not seeing guardians 3 in theaters but that raccoon has more heart than all 3 ms marvels/ant man/Loki/kenobi/all the externals/love and thunder combined

Succession another show features an older actor (Brian cox is 77) is another actor that drop-kicks any new marvel actor

Currently watching invasion on apple. Far superior to kenobi and ashsoka etc. lot is way better than secret invasion

Yellowstone isn’t blue bloods where only old people are watching. It’s one of the more popular shows that has 2 spin-offs generated from it . Tulsa king got renewed which is more than kenobi and possibly she hulk/ captain America etc

Now I’m hyped for daredevil but who knows. If it isn’t as good as Netflix version

Numbers don’t lie

 

[Gammadoodler]

They were able to pull it off with Guardians of the Galaxy. Not so much with The Eternals. :-/

Yeah, but they kinda didn't try with the Eternals. 2.5 hours spent keeping the team apart.

Like..if you're gonna have a "getting the band back together" movie..

1. Make us care about the band
2. Maybe..I dunno..actually get the band back together.

Such a weird movie.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Superheroes on exist because comics. They have whacky outfits so they can be easily recognised in simple drawings. They don't need movies, and movies don't need them. Action heroes can wear clothes that make sense in movies.

Trying to hide you're doing superheroes by not having them look like it hasn't exactly got the best history; its not clear its any more likely to be successful now.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

So to destroy the argument. If The boys makes a movie it doesn’t make a ton of money ?

Maybe? Probably not? After all, part of the appeal of The Boys is that it can do things that you can't get away with in a wide-release movie- certainly not a PG-13 movie, and not even R-rated movies for some of the scenes.

In addition, having a successful streaming show doesn't mean that you're going to pull in a lot of average moviegoers. It's not like people in the past used to say, "Hey, NCIS pulls in great numbers. It needs a movie!"

Any one of the main cast is a better actor than any new current marvel actor

Sigh Look, this isn't an acting problem. Brie Larson (Captain Marvel) is an amazing actor. Tom Hiddleston (Loki) is an amazing actor. Natalie Portman (Love and Thunder) is an amazing actor. Oscar Isaac and Ethan Hawke (Moon Knight) are amazing actors. Tatiana Maslany is an amazing actor. Angelina Jolie, Richard Madden, and Salma Hayek (Eternals)? Amazing actors. Michelle Pfieffer (Ant-Man- Quantumania)? Amazing Actor.

I could keep going, but you get the idea. The problem is not the acting. Marvel continues to pull in great actors. Heck, love him or hate him, the problem with Secret Invasion wasn't the fact that it had Samuel L. Jackson, Ben Mendelsohn (!!!), and Emilia Clarke. No one would look at the top cast and say ... you gotta get better ACTORS.

People went out during covid and set box office records for top gun. I’m not dropping 30+ for a trip for 2 to see the ok to bad stuff right now. I regretted not seeing guardians 3 in theaters but that raccoon has more heart than all 3 ms marvels/ant man/Loki/kenobi/all the externals/love and thunder combined

Succession another show features an older actor (Brian cox is 77) is another actor that drop-kicks any new marvel actor

Currently watching invasion on apple. Far superior to kenobi and ashsoka etc. lot is way better than secret invasion

Yellowstone isn’t blue bloods where only old people are watching. It’s one of the more popular shows that has 2 spin-offs generated from it . Tulsa king got renewed which is more than kenobi and possibly she hulk/ captain America etc

Now I’m hyped for daredevil but who knows. If it isn’t as good as Netflix version

Numbers don’t lie

Again, the issue with this type of argument is just that- you can't just cherry-pick numbers to support your argument when it suits you, and discount numbers when it doesn't. In addition, "numbers" aren't really a measure of artistic merit; Succession was a great show, but despite the greatness of it, it was a niche show- the fourth season was by far the most watched, and it still did half the viewership of a show like White Lotus, and a quarter of House of the Dragon or The Last of Us. (For what it's worth, the third season finale of Succession did less than 2 million viewers, whereas White Lotus averages over 15 million viewers, and the biggest shows on Max average over 30 million).

Yes, numbers matter, but you have to actually look at the numbers. Otherwise, by your argument, every actor on The Last of Us is a better actor than Brian Cox and Jeremy Strong and Sarah Snook. Is that your point?

 

[wicked cool]

Just looked up Brie Larson. Not an amazing actor
Angeline Jolie-good actress? Really debatable as looking through the films and her performances are really based on a unique look

Sam Jackson-yes good actor and I blame the script

The kid in last of us. Carries the show and yes ratings are warranted. Another 1 where I think it would translate well into a movie .
White lotus-agreed another fantastic show. Jennifer Coolidge fantastic and now maybe getting more roles (seeing her on commercials for something)


It’s a Disney problem. You put bad scripts and leading actors that can’t carry the show. Emilia Clarke was great in got because her character was great. She hasn’t been great in anything since (solo)
Ben Mendelson was the best part of secret invasion along with Olivia Colman and they weren’t the leads


My argument is it isn’t the age of the actor. It’s the scripts and certain actors can’t carry the lead. Morfydd can’t carry rings of power. Daisy Ridley can’t carry Star Wars

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Just looked up Brie Larson. Not an amazing actor

Not to put to fine a point on it ... but Brie Larson has an Academy Award (aka, Oscar), a SAG Award, a Golden Globe, and a BAFTA, among other awards.

If you don't think that she is a great actor, then I am not sure who could possibly qualify. Again, acting is somewhat subjective* ... but I can't help but notice that there is a certain .... common approach ... that you are taking when you are dismissing some people's acting, and accepting others.

The entire point of this is, of course, that the issue with Marvel isn't on the acting side. In addition, I will reiterate that success (in terms of metrics) and quality can be related, but are not the same thing. You can't just cherrypick random things to support you, and disregard counterexamples. You also shouldn't be comparing across different media- TV and films are quite different; something Marvel is learning.

*Brian Cox is a great actor ... but most importantly he was given a great role in Succession. If you were familiar with his filmography, you'd know that he's been in more than his fair share of stinkers.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Trying to hide you're doing superheroes by not having them look like it hasn't exactly got the best history; its not clear its any more likely to be successful now.

It worked for the first three Indiana Jones films, and dozens James Bonds.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It worked for the first three Indiana Jones films, and dozens James Bonds.

It didn't work for the Birds of Prey TV show or a number of others at the time. It just showed they lacked the courage of their convictions. And this is ignoring the question of the line where people can tell themselves they're just looking at action-adventure characters and where they're looking at overt superhumans.

(Someone can point in a counter-point of The Umbrella Academy, but I'd argue the dynamic there is so far from anything resembling conventional supers its more like urban fantasy).

 

[payn]

Maybe? Probably not? After all, part of the appeal of The Boys is that it can do things that you can't get away with in a wide-release movie- certainly not a PG-13 movie, and not even R-rated movies for some of the scenes.

In addition, having a successful streaming show doesn't mean that you're going to pull in a lot of average moviegoers. It's not like people in the past used to say, "Hey, NCIS pulls in great numbers. It needs a movie!"



Sigh Look, this isn't an acting problem. Brie Larson (Captain Marvel) is an amazing actor. Tom Hiddleston (Loki) is an amazing actor. Natalie Portman (Love and Thunder) is an amazing actor. Oscar Isaac and Ethan Hawke (Moon Knight) are amazing actors. Tatiana Maslany is an amazing actor. Angelina Jolie, Richard Madden, and Salma Hayek (Eternals)? Amazing actors. Michelle Pfieffer (Ant-Man- Quantumania)? Amazing Actor.

I could keep going, but you get the idea. The problem is not the acting. Marvel continues to pull in great actors. Heck, love him or hate him, the problem with Secret Invasion wasn't the fact that it had Samuel L. Jackson, Ben Mendelsohn (!!!), and Emilia Clarke. No one would look at the top cast and say ... you gotta get better ACTORS.



Again, the issue with this type of argument is just that- you can't just cherry-pick numbers to support your argument when it suits you, and discount numbers when it doesn't. In addition, "numbers" aren't really a measure of artistic merit; Succession was a great show, but despite the greatness of it, it was a niche show- the fourth season was by far the most watched, and it still did half the viewership of a show like White Lotus, and a quarter of House of the Dragon or The Last of Us. (For what it's worth, the third season finale of Succession did less than 2 million viewers, whereas White Lotus averages over 15 million viewers, and the biggest shows on Max average over 30 million).

Yes, numbers matter, but you have to actually look at the numbers. Otherwise, by your argument, every actor on The Last of Us is a better actor than Brian Cox and Jeremy Strong and Sarah Snook. Is that your point?

I appreciate you writing this up so I ain’t gotta.

 

[Ryujin]

Not to put to fine a point on it ... but Brie Larson has an Academy Award (aka, Oscar), a SAG Award, a Golden Globe, and a BAFTA, among other awards.

If you don't think that she is a great actor, then I am not sure who could possibly qualify. Again, acting is somewhat subjective* ... but I can't help but notice that there is a certain .... common approach ... that you are taking when you are dismissing some people's acting, and accepting others.

The entire point of this is, of course, that the issue with Marvel isn't on the acting side. In addition, I will reiterate that success (in terms of metrics) and quality can be related, but are not the same thing. You can't just cherrypick random things to support you, and disregard counterexamples. You also shouldn't be comparing across different media- TV and films are quite different; something Marvel is learning.

*Brian Cox is a great actor ... but most importantly he was given a great role in Succession. If you were familiar with his filmography, you'd know that he's been in more than his fair share of stinkers.

Apparently she's also a pretty good singer, as she did her own vocals in "Scott Pilgrim."