D&D 5E No One Plays High Level?

[Crimson Longinus]

How in the world do you spend multiple sessions at level 1? You only need 300 xp to get to 2. You can get that fighting off angry squirrels.

Looking at the actual XP guidelines, it seems to be possible. You divide the XP among the characters and for some bizarre reason you use the total XP of the monsters, not the XP adjusted by the difficulty rating (which seems pretty questionable to me.)

I calculated the XP award per character for the first session of my campaign, taking only account the monsters they fought, and it was only 140.
(EDIT: 190 XP, I forgot one encounter.)

DMG says following about advancing without XP:

SESSION-BASED ADVANCEMENT
A good rate of session-based advancement is to have
characters reach 2nd level after the first session of play,
3rd level after another session, and 4th level after two
more sessions. Then spend two or three sessions for
each subsequent level. This rate mirrors the standard
rate of advancement, assuming sessions are about four
hours long.

Which is actually a bit faster than what I've been doing, but I seriously doubt that using actual XP would get us anywhere near that pace, unless one was being super generous with non-combat XP.

 

[Oofta]

Looking at the actual XP guidelines, it seems to be possible. You divide the XP among the characters and for some bizarre reason you use the total XP of the monsters, not the XP adjusted by the difficulty rating (which seems pretty questionable to me.)

I calculated the XP award per character for the first session of my campaign, taking only account the monsters they fought, and it was only 140.

DMG says following about advancing without XP:

SESSION-BASED ADVANCEMENT
A good rate of session-based advancement is to have
characters reach 2nd level after the first session of play,
3rd level after another session, and 4th level after two
more sessions. Then spend two or three sessions for
each subsequent level. This rate mirrors the standard
rate of advancement, assuming sessions are about four
hours long.

Which is actually a bit faster than what I've been doing, but I seriously doubt that using actual XP would get us anywhere near that pace, unless one was being super generous with non-combat XP.

That's a little faster than what I do, but I gave up on XP a long time ago. Quite simply, I wanted people to advance so that I could tell different stories and I don't run murder-hobo games. How much XP do you grant for clever play that convinces a neighboring city to come to the aid of a town threatened by attack? What do you reward for getting the McGuffin through subterfuge and stealth instead of charging in and killing everything in your path?

I discuss how quickly people want to advance in our session 0 and we go from there. Personally I have a slight preference for low levels more than high in some ways because low levels are more relatable but I have no problems advancing more quickly.

 

[Quickleaf]

Ah. Perhaps that explains it then; the DM ensuring that the levels happen at the desired pace. Haven't had any 5e DMs interested in milestone levelling. I do know one person who runs her games that way though, so it isn't totally unknown to me. I just don't recall ever seeing it in the online gaming space.

But yes, despite these things being at least half the game, I've gotten far more non-combat XP from 4e than I have from 5e despite having joined far more 5e games than 4e ones at this point.

It's part of why I am so puzzled/frustrated by all the talk of having non-combat encounters out the wazoo. If they actually gave XP that might be a different story, but unless the thing we did specifically was averting a combat encounter through RP or resource/skill use, I've never seen anyone give out XP for anything but combat in 5e. That pattern will technically break if the on-again, off-again game I mentioned keeps on its pace, as the DM has said he will be making special dispensation to get us to a higher level ASAP in order to align with his regular group. That it is a special dispensation, however, is very clear.

Ah, sadly my not-Egypt D&D game ended due to real life circumstances, but I created a quest-centric XP system that worked great for us.

I'll post the story awards table below – the blip at 10th/11th level is due to 5e's weird XP chart at those levels, so I just smoothed it over a bit. This replaced all other forms of XP.

Level	XP to Level Up	Minor Quest (10%)	Major Quest (30%)
1	300	30	90
2	600	60	180
3	1,800	180	540
4	3,800	380	1,140
5	7,500	750	2,250
6	9,000	900	2,700
7	11,000	1,100	3,300
8	14,000	1,400	4,200
9	16,000	1,600	4,800
10*	21,000	2,100 2,000	6,300 6,000
11*	15,000	1,500 2,000	4,500 6,000
12	20,000	2,000	6,000
13	20,000	2,000	6,000
14	25,000	2,500	7,500
15	30,000	3,000	9,000
16	30,000	3,000	9,000
17	40,000	4,000	12,000
18	40,000	4,000	12,000
19	50,000	5,000	15,000
20	–	–	–

Then during my prep I would try to think in advance about story beats and suitable XP awards (obvs players would surprise me as well). For example:

Roleplaying (370 / 2,340 XP)

• Compelling the mummy Kholan to reveal information about the chain devil: 180 XP
• Convincing one of the NPCs to help smuggle the PCs out of Hamunaptra: 380 XP
• Deducing that Crafty Kastor stole the fentu without falsely accusing anyone: 540 XP
• Deducing that Crafty Kastor stole the fentu with just one false accusation or red herring: 270 XP
• Falsely accusing more than one NPC: -270 XP
• Presenting a strong argument and evidence of the conspiracy to Pharaoh: 1,140 XP < we were headed here next when our game fizzled out
• Realizing that Badru bonded with the fentu and ensuring his well-being: 100 XP

Exploration (1,080 / 2,180 XP)

• Deducing the identity and murder circumstances of the dead priest Terrik Fass: 180 XP
• Discovering the ascension of the “Master” is a renegade from the Temple of Set (by deciphering writings in burial chamber, speaking with Emmeryth, or interrogating Crafty): 540 XP
• Discovering Malmennoth’s vessel and its deal with Nezznar: 540 XP
• Getting cursed due to greed in Kher-semet: -50 XP per PC cursed
• Getting taken captive and tortured during Escape from Hamunaptra: -50 XP per PC interrogated
• Retrieving the ka fentu before it dies: 540 XP
• Summoning Emmeryth and learning about the Temple of Set’s fight against demons: 380 XP

Combat (1,050 / 1,720 XP)

• Defeating both of the “Daughters of Set”...: 570 XP
• ...and ensuring they’re not resurrected again: 570 XP
• Each random encounter in Kher-semet overcome without causing death: 100 XP
• Harming Pharaoh or his agents/guards during the escape from Hamunaptra: -250 XP
• Using True Names against Babat or Shefa: 380 XP
• Winning fight in ring or putting on a convincing “show” fight: 100 XP

 

[Reynard]

Looking at the actual XP guidelines, it seems to be possible. You divide the XP among the characters and for some bizarre reason you use the total XP of the monsters, not the XP adjusted by the difficulty rating (which seems pretty questionable to me.)

I calculated the XP award per character for the first session of my campaign, taking only account the monsters they fought, and it was only 140.

4 Characters going from 1st to 2nd level requires a total of 1200 XP.

Let's say the PCs are dealing with a goblinoid warband that has been harassing travelers from a long abandoned mile-castle along an ancient frontier wall. There is a bugbear chief (200 xp) and 2 hobgoblin lieutenants (200 xp) along with a worg (100 xp) for extra security. The warband is 10 goblins strong (500 xp), usually found in pair or groups of three as they go about their day. The goblins have not managed to get into the old armory and it is a good thing, too -- there is a set of animated armor in there (200 xp) that will attack anyone who enters, PC or goblinoid.

That is 1200 XP and absolutely something I could run in a 4 hour convention slot and have time to spare.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

4 Characters going from 1st to 2nd level requires a total of 1200 XP.

Let's say the PCs are dealing with a goblinoid warband that has been harassing travelers from a long abandoned mile-castle along an ancient frontier wall. There is a bugbear chief (200 xp) and 2 hobgoblin lieutenants (200 xp) along with a worg (100 xp) for extra security. The warband is 10 goblins strong (500 xp), usually found in pair or groups of three as they go about their day. The goblins have not managed to get into the old armory and it is a good thing, too -- there is a set of animated armor in there (200 xp) that will attack anyone who enters, PC or goblinoid.

That is 1200 XP and absolutely something I could run in a 4 hour convention slot and have time to spare.

Sure, as the PCs would be dead quickly. This seems pretty dangerous for 1st level characters to me.

 

[Reynard]

Sure, as the PCs would be dead quickly. This seems pretty dangerous for 1st level characters to me.

Yes, if the PCs ran up to the front gate and started firing cantrips and arrows, they would be dead quickly. But my job isn't to tell the players how to engage the situation. it is is to respond to their choices and provide information. If they want to make a suicide run, that's fine. i don't even have to calculate XP then. Everyone is happy.

But, if they want to engage the situation, use stealth and maybe some diplomacy, or even just hit and run tactics, the scenario as I have laid it out is not a meat grinder. st level 5E characters are not that fragile.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes, if the PCs ran up to the front gate and started firing cantrips and arrows, they would be dead quickly. But my job isn't to tell the players how to engage the situation. it is is to respond to their choices and provide information. If they want to make a suicide run, that's fine. i don't even have to calculate XP then. Everyone is happy.

But, if they want to engage the situation, use stealth and maybe some diplomacy, or even just hit and run tactics, the scenario as I have laid it out is not a meat grinder. st level 5E characters are not that fragile.

I wish I could both "like" and "ha ha" this!

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yes, if the PCs ran up to the front gate and started firing cantrips and arrows, they would be dead quickly. But my job isn't to tell the players how to engage the situation. it is is to respond to their choices and provide information. If they want to make a suicide run, that's fine. i don't even have to calculate XP then. Everyone is happy.

But, if they want to engage the situation, use stealth and maybe some diplomacy, or even just hit and run tactics, the scenario as I have laid it out is not a meat grinder. st level 5E characters are not that fragile.

I am not expecting the PCs to fight all of this at once, but they are rather fragile and the enemies you're using here can hit pretty hard. A 1st level character has 6 to 15 HP. Bugbear does 2d8+2 (11) damage per attack and 2d6 (7) on top of that if they get their sneak attack. Hobgoblin has a feature that let's it do 2d6 extra damage if an ally is nearby. Even the worg does 2d6+3 (10) damage. Several of these have a decent chance to not only drop a PC, but kill them outright via massive damage.

And sure, if this was some survival mode challenge to experienced players this would be fine, but it seems like too much for noobs or even to average players.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

We just completed one campaign and have reached 10th level with milestone experience/leveling.

Tonight we restart with the same characters or if folks are wanting to try new ones they can make a level 10.

This is really the highest I have played in 5e and honestly, we did not get much higher in 1e!

I am interested to see how things change. One pal is pumped to do higher level stuff. I am usually good with lower (I enjoy the vulnerability). Looking forward to see how it rolls.

For me as a blade pact warlock (two levels of barbarian) I don’t think things will change that much. I eldritch smite a lot and misty step and rage.

My pal who is really looking for higher level play is playing a wizard…

 

[Micah Sweet]

I am not expecting the PCs to fight all of this at once, but they are rather fragile and the enemies you're using here can hit pretty hard. A 1st level character has 6 to 15 HP. Bugbear does 2d8+2 (11) damage per attack and 2d6 (7) on top of that if they get their sneak attack. Hobgoblin has a feature that let's it do 2d6 extra damage if an ally is nearby. Even the worg does 2d6+3 (10) damage. Several of these have a decent chance to not only drop a PC, but kill them outright via massive damage.

And sure, if this was some survival mode challenge to experienced players this would be fine, but it seems like too much for noobs or even to average players.

Hence fighting them directly is a bad idea. That's not, to me, a good enough reason for them not to be there.