D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

[Hussar]

/snip

Of course, it had it's own odd rules, but I still felt it was an improvement.

Again, you're doing it completely wrong. Suggesting that there were any flaws in 3e is verbotten. You must never criticise 3e. After all, doing so is badwrongfun. You must remember that all things 4e are bad and all things in other editions are better by comparison. It is unpossible that 4e improved or fixed any previous parts of the game. And when 5e copies practically word for word from 4e, well... that's just because it's entirely a 5e invention and we conveniently ignore 4e.

 

[Autumnal]

Or 4e copied it from 5e, its perfidy knowing no bounds.

 

[pemerton]

Or 4e copied it from 5e, its perfidy and time-travel ability knowing no bounds.

I hope it's not too great an affront to have added some elaboration to your post.

 

[Hussar]

Considering the lengths that people have gone to to deny that 4e innovated anything, it's not really a stretch.

 

[Autumnal]

@pemerton : Gratuitous time travel is a form of perfidy.

 

[pemerton]

@pemerton : Gratuitous time travel is a form of perfidy.

Fair enough!

Considering the lengths that people have gone to to deny that 4e innovated anything, it's not really a stretch.

Everyone's a time-traveller!

 

[Autumnal]

Ray Davies weighs in:

Everybody's a time traveler and everybody's grognards
And everybody's in edition wars, it doesn't matter who you are
There’s perfidy in every forum
In every thread and on Youtube
And if you walk phone up Wizards in Bellevue
They’ll tell you about those in TARDIS

 

[payn]

Again, you're doing it completely wrong. Suggesting that there were any flaws in 3e is verbotten. You must never criticise 3e. After all, doing so is badwrongfun. You must remember that all things 4e are bad and all things in other editions are better by comparison. It is unpossible that 4e improved or fixed any previous parts of the game. And when 5e copies practically word for word from 4e, well... that's just because it's entirely a 5e invention and we conveniently ignore 4e.

Oh please...

 

[Thomas Shey]

I never understood why they didn't just jump up the AC value of creatures with inherent concealment, have invisibility grant a big AC bonus, and call it done. Less dice-rolling and the math isn't any harder.

Because the maths come out radically differently with high and low AC base opponents. A flat percentage stays symmetrical the whole way.

 

[Red Castle]

Oh yeah, 20%/50% chance to miss if something has concealment. Such a feel-bad mechanic.

I didn’t really played 3e, I kinda skipted it, so I didn’t knew this kind of mechanic existed… that’s… something… I’m glad they didn’t kept it, I think there is not much worst than stealing success from players…